ILTS/TLT in Your Troop. Who does it?

[Spiney Norman]

I had a short conversation with the course director for NYLT in our council last night. He seemed to be very surprised that we conducted ILST/TLT in our troop and had been doing so for years.

So here's my question, I'm trying to get an idea of where folks are at on this subject.

 

 

Oh, sure! let's try this poll option.

 

 

[Spiney Norman]

WELL THAT DIDN'T WORK VERY WELL...............

[Basementdweller]

As SM I conduct it promptly after each change in youth leadership, which is twice a year........Only the elected and appointed youth leaders attend not the entire troop.

 

Only have done it once........

 

Pizza and lock in are the reward.....We hooked up 4 xboxes and the boys gamed all night after the training.......

 

Now all the boys are talking about it.....there is excitement about being a youth leader and the perks...........

 

[Gone]

Like BW we do it twice a year. I use the old JLT documents and curricula. Thanks to the Internet one can find the JLT info pretty easy. I also use the old Leadership Corp material too. Our District level training is pretty bad so,we built this out of necessity. Guys who are 13 and have been through our TLT we recommend for NYLT.

[Scouter99]

Our troop hadn't done it in a long time. Several years ago, the SM did something he called TLT, but it was some 3-hour PowerPoint he made. Last year an ASM did it, but gutted it and pared it town to a 1-hour lecture--both with predictable non-results.

Your last option is flawed in that it implies that a troop must or is doing TLT if they send boys to NYLT, which is not the case. We require NYLT of any candidate for SPL.

[Spiney Norman]

Our troop hadn't done it in a long time. Several years ago, the SM did something he called TLT, but it was some 3-hour PowerPoint he made. Last year an ASM did it, but gutted it and pared it town to a 1-hour lecture--both with predictable non-results.

Your last option is flawed in that it implies that a troop must or is doing TLT if they send boys to NYLT, which is not the case. We require NYLT of any candidate for SPL.

While TLT is not required for NYLT it is part of the ILST/NYLT/Nayle continuum. NYLT covers a lot of material quickly, I would think sending a scout that is not familiar with some of the concepts and could inhibit how much they retain.

Take a look at the new ILST course. It may just change your mind...................

[Gone]

My problem with ILST is that the document, while a fine outline, has nothing solid behind it. It leaves it up to the SM to build the presentation. Whereas in the past the old JLT and TLT had ppt and videos and DVDs you could get that helped you put on the training. Unless I am wrong (and I would be happy to be wrong) all BSA gives you with ILST is the doc below and leaves the rest to you to put together, no?

 

I read though this a few years ago when looking to put together a JLT course for our troop. The amount of prep needed using this course guide was astronomical. When I compare to some of the ready-made material BSA has offered in the past -- which could be used almost out-of-the-box -- it is no wonder few troops do ILST. Who has that much time?

 

http://www.scouting.org/filestore/training/pdf/ILST%20FINALS%202011%20-%20Item%20Number%20511-016.pdf

[Scouter99]

Our troop hadn't done it in a long time. Several years ago, the SM did something he called TLT, but it was some 3-hour PowerPoint he made. Last year an ASM did it, but gutted it and pared it town to a 1-hour lecture--both with predictable non-results.

Your last option is flawed in that it implies that a troop must or is doing TLT if they send boys to NYLT, which is not the case. We require NYLT of any candidate for SPL.

Heh, my mind doesn't need to be changed, Spiney. They should do the real training the right way; not doing so produced predictable non-results, but saying so would make me a sourpuss

I'm not sure what your council does or what qualifies as "quickly" for you, but NYLT here is a week long.

[FrugalProf]

Any advice on what to do if SM won't train boy leaders in TLT? As UC, I have asked SM to do this for nearly two years. I even bought the TLT manual and SM won't touch it, literally! I can't get him to even sit down and look at it. I know it is supposed to be the SM doing the TLT with SPL first, then SPL assists in training others. But since SM won't look at the materials, I have asked Troop Committee to ask SM for TLT for boys. What to do?

[King Ding Dong]

Any advice on what to do if SM won't train boy leaders in TLT? As UC, I have asked SM to do this for nearly two years. I even bought the TLT manual and SM won't touch it, literally! I can't get him to even sit down and look at it. I know it is supposed to be the SM doing the TLT with SPL first, then SPL assists in training others. But since SM won't look at the materials, I have asked Troop Committee to ask SM for TLT for boys. What to do?

I suggest reviewing and replying to post 6 above.

[ScouterWamp]

We actually try to do ILST after each election. We explain to the Scouts that leadership experiences change based upon the leadership team; different SPL, different goal, different dynamic, different expectations, etc.

Typically, as the SM, I will bring together the PLC and staff and do an overnight lock-in with them. The "culminating" piece of the ILST is to walk them through (in detail) what a PLC planning meeting should be. I do like the old JLT much better than the new ILST (based upon the resources they provide), but have been using the ILST cirriculum for the last two years.

We will be having leader training this weekend and I will be changing it a little bit. I was away following the last elections, and will not be the SM for the next elections, so I am opening this training to anyone who wants to run for SPL or PL (2nd Class or above and at least 1 year as a Boy Scout). This will introduce a lot more Scouts to the theories of Scout leadership and planning. Additionally, we will be using this event to make our Annual Plan and basic budget development.

 

I also remind the Scouts, this is only the beginning of learning how to lead and encourage them to attend NYLT. However, we have not had anyone go to NYLT in at least the last four years (rather difficult as it is only offered during the last week prior to school, about 8hrs away). This is an issue we are trying to remedy.

 

FP, If a Scoutmaster won't train the Scouts, refer him back to his position description and the Scoutmaster Handbook. I see this training as one of the most important of my responsibilities. Does your District provide ILST (I know ours does, but that is a second choice to Troop level training)?? It is important for the Scouts to understand how to lead, expectations of them, responsibilites for their positions, and other tools available to help them do their job. Is the SM against doing the training himself, or against any training provided to the Scouts?? Maybe a ASM or CM can help in this issue?? Just my $.02 ....

[Twocubdad]

Any advice on what to do if SM won't train boy leaders in TLT? As UC, I have asked SM to do this for nearly two years. I even bought the TLT manual and SM won't touch it, literally! I can't get him to even sit down and look at it. I know it is supposed to be the SM doing the TLT with SPL first, then SPL assists in training others. But since SM won't look at the materials, I have asked Troop Committee to ask SM for TLT for boys. What to do?

After two years of asking, it sound to me you have your answer. As a SM, I'd quit returning your phone calls.

 

TLT isn't a requirement. There are a lot of ways to skin that cat besides a formal, sit-down classroom session. Perhaps the SM feels he has youth leadership training otherwise covered.

 

BSA shot its own foot. For years the JLT syllabus consisted of a stack of business cards with job descriptions. I wrote out own day long syllabus several years ago which is very similar to the current BSA one. Few troops could do that and not many used the silly business card thing. While the new syllabus is a huge improvement, it does take some preparation. (And honestly, if it were more "shovel ready" out of the box, we'd be complaining it was too canned and inflexible. The preparation time is where you make the presentations you own and adapt them to your troop).

[Basementdweller]

Any advice on what to do if SM won't train boy leaders in TLT? As UC, I have asked SM to do this for nearly two years. I even bought the TLT manual and SM won't touch it, literally! I can't get him to even sit down and look at it. I know it is supposed to be the SM doing the TLT with SPL first, then SPL assists in training others. But since SM won't look at the materials, I have asked Troop Committee to ask SM for TLT for boys. What to do?

Butt out......

[FrugalProf]

We actually try to do ILST after each election. We explain to the Scouts that leadership experiences change based upon the leadership team; different SPL, different goal, different dynamic, different expectations, etc.

Typically, as the SM, I will bring together the PLC and staff and do an overnight lock-in with them. The "culminating" piece of the ILST is to walk them through (in detail) what a PLC planning meeting should be. I do like the old JLT much better than the new ILST (based upon the resources they provide), but have been using the ILST cirriculum for the last two years.

We will be having leader training this weekend and I will be changing it a little bit. I was away following the last elections, and will not be the SM for the next elections, so I am opening this training to anyone who wants to run for SPL or PL (2nd Class or above and at least 1 year as a Boy Scout). This will introduce a lot more Scouts to the theories of Scout leadership and planning. Additionally, we will be using this event to make our Annual Plan and basic budget development.

 

I also remind the Scouts, this is only the beginning of learning how to lead and encourage them to attend NYLT. However, we have not had anyone go to NYLT in at least the last four years (rather difficult as it is only offered during the last week prior to school, about 8hrs away). This is an issue we are trying to remedy.

 

FP, If a Scoutmaster won't train the Scouts, refer him back to his position description and the Scoutmaster Handbook. I see this training as one of the most important of my responsibilities. Does your District provide ILST (I know ours does, but that is a second choice to Troop level training)?? It is important for the Scouts to understand how to lead, expectations of them, responsibilites for their positions, and other tools available to help them do their job. Is the SM against doing the training himself, or against any training provided to the Scouts?? Maybe a ASM or CM can help in this issue?? Just my $.02 ....

Thanks for the input regarding SM not training boys. The exact cause of his reluctance is not clear. He acknowledges the need but then his description of training is not entirely consistent with ILST or even TLT and seems to be more along the line of camping skills. Specifically, he stated he needs to have a leader camping trip to teach the leaders how to properly wash the cookware. Since I was speaking to him in front of a committee member, I chose not to address it directly at that point, but I am fairly certain we are not on the same page since that response came from him immediately in the wake of showing him a copy of the old TLT manual. I am bewildered by the response since this SM is a veteran SM in our council with a son who achieved Eagle rank. The only choice I see is to ensure that I attend the leadership camping trip along with a couple of concerned Dads/committee members and work together with them to hold the ILST while including some cookware washing skills training as part of the demonstration of EDGE - that way, everyone wins!

[Twocubdad]

 

 

WOAH!

 

Are you the UC or the COR? Frankly, buster, I'd bounce your butt out of my campsite faster that you can say "silver epaulettes." It's not your dad-gummed job to dictate to a SM how he trains he youth leaders. Maybe he DOES need to work on camp cleaning with the troop. Maybe the SM has determined his youth leaders need more work on basic skills than discussing "communications theory". But it's none of your business. If you gave him a copy of the JLT syllabus, you've done your job. Now back off.

 

Undermining the SM by ginning up a group of "concerned dads" is WAAAAY over the line. As a SM I'd be on the phone with the DC letting him know you are no longer welcome at our troop.

 

There are many ways to teach leadership. Following the national TLT syllabus is just one. I'm not surprised troops don't use the syllabus. Until the latest one came out, the program was the pits -- a stack of business cards with job descriptions and 15 minute program for discussion the job description with the Scouts. Years ago, I wrote our own day-long syllabus for our troop to use. Actually, it is very similar to the new national syllabus. But we change it every year, in part to keep it fresh for the Scouts who have take it several times, but also to focus on program elements the leadership believes is important or perhaps the troop needs to brush up on. We've used the program to introduce the youth leaders to new methods and procedures. When we thought the troop was slipping in the quality of camp cooking, we use dinner at the end of TLT to challenge the boys to try new things. Guess what, one year we had a session on camp clean up when we changed the way we did thing.