A joke with a purpose

[MattR]

A new rabbi comes to a well-established congregation. Every week on the Sabbath, a fight erupts during the service. When it comes time to recite the Shema prayer, half of the congregation stands and the other half sits. The half who stand say, "Of course we stand for the Shema. It’s the credo of Judaism. Throughout history, thousands of Jews have died with the words of the Shema on their lips." The half who remain seated say, "No. According to the Shulchan Aruch (the code of Jewish law), if you are seated when you get to the Shema you remain seated."

 

The people who are standing yell at the people who are sitting, "Stand up!" while the people who are sitting yell at the people who are standing, "Sit down!" It’s destroying the whole decorum of the service, and driving the new rabbi crazy. Finally, it’s brought to the rabbi’s attention that at a nearby home for the aged is a 98-year-old man who was a founding member of the congregation. So, in accordance with Talmudic tradition, the rabbi appoints a delegation of three, one who stands for the Shema, one who sits, and the rabbi himself, to go interview the man. They enter his room, and the man who stands for the Shema rushes over to the old man and says, "Wasn’t it the tradition in our synagogue to stand for the Shema?"

 

"No," the old man answers in a weak voice. "That wasn’t the tradition."

 

The other man jumps in excitedly. "Wasn’t it the tradition in our synagogue to sit for the Shema?"

 

"No," the old man says. "That wasn’t the tradition."

 

At this point, the rabbi cannot control himself. He cuts in angrily. "I don’t care what the tradition was! Just tell them one or the other. Do you know what goes on in services every week — the people who are standing yell at the people who are sitting, the people who are sitting yell at the people who are standing—"

 

"That was the tradition," the old man says.

 

This is a good joke and it also reminds me of everything I've read about the Boy Scouts over the past two weeks.I found this joke along with a discussion about arguing. There are good arguments, bad arguments, and some arguments that go on forever. Good arguments are those where both sides are seeking common ground and both sides can give some to get there. Bad arguments are those where each side is only interested in winning, and bludgeoning the other side is fair game. The above joke came along with an example of a bad argument from the Torah. There's a guy by the name of Korach that is not happy with Moses and starts a big argument and tries to throw out Moses. He's only interested in winning and tries to get everyone on his side. He uses a bad style of argumentation and consequently, in great biblical fashion, is swallowed by the earth.

 

We, the Boy Scouts, might not be swallowed by the earth if we keep up the bad arguments but we may be swallowed up by those that don't care about us. Outside of scouting there are two loud camps arguing over gays and scouting. Neither care about the boys nearly as much as they care about winning. Both hate each other. Both are just trying to be louder. Neither will listen. It's just like the joke. Except both would be fine with tearing apart the BSA if only they could win their argument.

 

We're the only ones that have our best interest in mind. We care about the kids and we care about scouting. We know it works. We know how to work with boys and we have a proven history that goes on longer than all but a few governments in the world have had constitutions. In this day and age of a mentality that winning is the only thing, the Boy Scouts have something to offer that nobody else has. Personally, I would like to tell both Glaad and the Southern Baptists to back off and let us figure this out.

 

Some may say we have no vote but I'm guessing, of the 1400 people voting, many of them are reading this website. I know of one of those 1400. I'm sure others here know plenty more. Some may also say that letting the loser form the rainbow scouts or the American heritage scouts is fine, but the chance of that working is slim. Some say to just hope the vote is no and we can get back to where we were. That's a great short term solution but everyone knows which way society is going. There will be more votes down the road.

 

We may as well address this problem than let someone else do it for us. Let's take this as an opportunity to show leadership to the rest of the country on how to agree to disagree and move forward. The majority of the country would like to see that. Let's turn lemons into lemonade. Isn't that what we teach scouts?

 

I don't know what the common ground looks like but anyone that wants to keep their values and keep the Boy Scouts together is welcome around my campfire. I know I can't change your values and I know your values might not look exactly like mine, but if you believe in what Boy Scouts can do for a young man, I'll stick up for you and your values. I would rather have an argument with you forever, so boys can keep growing, then win an empty argument and watch the BSA whither away.

 

[BDPT00]

Thank you,

BDPT00

[MattR]

I'm posting this here because someone erased my joke, the other threads seem to be messed up, and this one has plenty of room.

 

The reality of what I do as a Scoutmaster sort of hit me last weekend at a campout. It really got me thinking. I know I won't change anyone's opinion, but here's mine.

 

The biggest problem I have is with scouts that don't have a stable family. I have scouts whose fathers have died, a scout whose father held him and his mom at gun point, a scout raised by his grandmother because his parents are in jail, a scout suffering PTSD because of things his biological mother did around him, scouts with split families that fight in front of their kids. And to think that I live in a nice town, too - I can imagine my problems aren't that bad. These are the kids that need scouts, but I don't have the time to help them. I try my best, but sometimes I wonder if I'm helping that much. These kids need constant attention, a mix of tough love and someone that will just listen. I don't have that much time. At this point, I wouldn't turn down help from a gay parent, and neither would any of these kids.

 

The adults that help the most in my troop are religious. Religion is neither necessary nor sufficient, but these people help more often than not. I thought about it and it seems that character is like any skill, you have to practice to get good at it. Not only that, but you also need an instructor that knows what he's talking about. Anything that has a long history of practice and principles is ok by me. I have no idea how the Boy Scouts word it, but we all know a duck when we see one.

 

Many people say the wisdom from the bible is absolute and doesn't change. I beg to differ. Anyone that believes in one God and has no problem eating a bacon cheese burger, especially for the eight days starting with the first full moon after the Northern vernal equinox, can thank someone's interpretation of dietary laws explicitly written in Leviticus, to get them off the hook. There's a long history of such interpretations. After the 24 books of the Tanakh (Bible) were canonized sometime between 200 BCE and 200 CE, the Mishnah was completed in 220 CE. This was the first collection of rabbinic work interpreting the Bible. After the Mishnah was completed the Gemara was completed around 500 CE. This is a set of interpretations of the Mishnah. That's just the beginning of what is still going on to this day. Within Jewish law the death penalty hasn't been practiced in over 2000 years. Slavery ended in the 18th century. Attitudes towards the deaf changed in the 19th century. Attitudes about gays started changing in the 70's.

 

Finally, for all those that say they'll leave if the vote in May doesn't go their way, I'm wondering if that's not throwing out the baby with the bath water. Think about the kids without the fathers, with the parents in jail, with moms that are heroin addicts. Will you still be around these kids to show them good character? No matter what your view point, you have to live out in the muck if you're going to help those kids that need it most. If you leave where will you go to keep helping out? Will you start a new troop in some fledgling organization? The answer to both groups is the same, the BSA is the best there is. Sometimes you remind yourself that a scout is cheerful, and you keep going. I hope some day a scout thanks you.

 

[packsaddle]

I'm posting this here because someone erased my joke, the other threads seem to be messed up, and this one has plenty of room.

 

The reality of what I do as a Scoutmaster sort of hit me last weekend at a campout. It really got me thinking. I know I won't change anyone's opinion, but here's mine.

 

The biggest problem I have is with scouts that don't have a stable family. I have scouts whose fathers have died, a scout whose father held him and his mom at gun point, a scout raised by his grandmother because his parents are in jail, a scout suffering PTSD because of things his biological mother did around him, scouts with split families that fight in front of their kids. And to think that I live in a nice town, too - I can imagine my problems aren't that bad. These are the kids that need scouts, but I don't have the time to help them. I try my best, but sometimes I wonder if I'm helping that much. These kids need constant attention, a mix of tough love and someone that will just listen. I don't have that much time. At this point, I wouldn't turn down help from a gay parent, and neither would any of these kids.

 

The adults that help the most in my troop are religious. Religion is neither necessary nor sufficient, but these people help more often than not. I thought about it and it seems that character is like any skill, you have to practice to get good at it. Not only that, but you also need an instructor that knows what he's talking about. Anything that has a long history of practice and principles is ok by me. I have no idea how the Boy Scouts word it, but we all know a duck when we see one.

 

Many people say the wisdom from the bible is absolute and doesn't change. I beg to differ. Anyone that believes in one God and has no problem eating a bacon cheese burger, especially for the eight days starting with the first full moon after the Northern vernal equinox, can thank someone's interpretation of dietary laws explicitly written in Leviticus, to get them off the hook. There's a long history of such interpretations. After the 24 books of the Tanakh (Bible) were canonized sometime between 200 BCE and 200 CE, the Mishnah was completed in 220 CE. This was the first collection of rabbinic work interpreting the Bible. After the Mishnah was completed the Gemara was completed around 500 CE. This is a set of interpretations of the Mishnah. That's just the beginning of what is still going on to this day. Within Jewish law the death penalty hasn't been practiced in over 2000 years. Slavery ended in the 18th century. Attitudes towards the deaf changed in the 19th century. Attitudes about gays started changing in the 70's.

 

Finally, for all those that say they'll leave if the vote in May doesn't go their way, I'm wondering if that's not throwing out the baby with the bath water. Think about the kids without the fathers, with the parents in jail, with moms that are heroin addicts. Will you still be around these kids to show them good character? No matter what your view point, you have to live out in the muck if you're going to help those kids that need it most. If you leave where will you go to keep helping out? Will you start a new troop in some fledgling organization? The answer to both groups is the same, the BSA is the best there is. Sometimes you remind yourself that a scout is cheerful, and you keep going. I hope some day a scout thanks you.

MattR, Thank you for your thoughts on this. I tend to agree with you.

Regarding the deletion, I'm thinking the forum 'ghost' must have done the deed for your joke. I can't remember reading it but the moderators have informally agreed to 'sign' any action as serious as deleting a post, etc. I can't say for sure that someone didn't remove the joke but I can say for sure that I didn't and if I had, I would have left a message as to why.

So please add the joke again as a comment and if any moderators have other thoughts, please add those comments as well. All I really want is to understand things.

Thanks again for a thoughtful post.

 

P.S. as if I need to add, this is MY second attempt to successfully add a comment.

[MattR]

I'm posting this here because someone erased my joke, the other threads seem to be messed up, and this one has plenty of room.

 

The reality of what I do as a Scoutmaster sort of hit me last weekend at a campout. It really got me thinking. I know I won't change anyone's opinion, but here's mine.

 

The biggest problem I have is with scouts that don't have a stable family. I have scouts whose fathers have died, a scout whose father held him and his mom at gun point, a scout raised by his grandmother because his parents are in jail, a scout suffering PTSD because of things his biological mother did around him, scouts with split families that fight in front of their kids. And to think that I live in a nice town, too - I can imagine my problems aren't that bad. These are the kids that need scouts, but I don't have the time to help them. I try my best, but sometimes I wonder if I'm helping that much. These kids need constant attention, a mix of tough love and someone that will just listen. I don't have that much time. At this point, I wouldn't turn down help from a gay parent, and neither would any of these kids.

 

The adults that help the most in my troop are religious. Religion is neither necessary nor sufficient, but these people help more often than not. I thought about it and it seems that character is like any skill, you have to practice to get good at it. Not only that, but you also need an instructor that knows what he's talking about. Anything that has a long history of practice and principles is ok by me. I have no idea how the Boy Scouts word it, but we all know a duck when we see one.

 

Many people say the wisdom from the bible is absolute and doesn't change. I beg to differ. Anyone that believes in one God and has no problem eating a bacon cheese burger, especially for the eight days starting with the first full moon after the Northern vernal equinox, can thank someone's interpretation of dietary laws explicitly written in Leviticus, to get them off the hook. There's a long history of such interpretations. After the 24 books of the Tanakh (Bible) were canonized sometime between 200 BCE and 200 CE, the Mishnah was completed in 220 CE. This was the first collection of rabbinic work interpreting the Bible. After the Mishnah was completed the Gemara was completed around 500 CE. This is a set of interpretations of the Mishnah. That's just the beginning of what is still going on to this day. Within Jewish law the death penalty hasn't been practiced in over 2000 years. Slavery ended in the 18th century. Attitudes towards the deaf changed in the 19th century. Attitudes about gays started changing in the 70's.

 

Finally, for all those that say they'll leave if the vote in May doesn't go their way, I'm wondering if that's not throwing out the baby with the bath water. Think about the kids without the fathers, with the parents in jail, with moms that are heroin addicts. Will you still be around these kids to show them good character? No matter what your view point, you have to live out in the muck if you're going to help those kids that need it most. If you leave where will you go to keep helping out? Will you start a new troop in some fledgling organization? The answer to both groups is the same, the BSA is the best there is. Sometimes you remind yourself that a scout is cheerful, and you keep going. I hope some day a scout thanks you.

I'm sure it was the ghost, there was nothing obnoxious about the joke. No offense was taken. At this point, we need a place to talk so I'll be thrifty and leave things alone.