Senior_Patrol_Leader_T15 Posted October 2, 2003 Author Share Posted October 2, 2003 Exacty NeilUp, she believed, and still beleives, that since her husband is ASM, which no one voted on, leting him be it just so that he would hush, that she can do wharever she wants, and whenever. I also have another problem, how to deal with her son. He beleives now that his position, Quartermaster, means that he has the right to yell at the other scouts and tell him what to do. And then he'll come back and hollar some more and tells me taht he will get his dad to get on to me for hollaring at him. And he NEVER listens! What to do... My thought is explain to him that when he is with the troop, that his only family is us, and that there is no one in there that is his brother by blood, and that everyone is his brother by the Scout Law and Oath, and when you dont have them, you have no family within the troop. But I dont know if that's too harsh, or not harsh enough, or if there is another way to explain it to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twocubdad Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 I don't want to disparage your Scoutmaster, SPL, but he done ya wrong, as they say around here. As has been noted before, you should not have been left to deal with the woman. That's an adult problem and should have been handled by adults. Hindsight is always 20/20, but there was plenty of prior indication that she shouldn't have been left at a PLC meeting without adult supervision. Secondly, you were given poor advice when he told to to ask her to leave if she caused a problem. Primarily because it isn't your place to ask an adult to leave a meeting and because it wasn't necessarily the appropriate way to handle the situation. Given that situation and instructions you were given, I won't criticize you at all. I do, however, hope you will learn from the experience. One thing you should consider is what was the appropriate level of response to the problem. To come out of the block asking the woman to "excuse herself" was HIGHLY inflammatory. A better response would have been to explain to her that the activity was already part of the agenda and that you were simply reconfirming it. If she continued aguing, you could have suggested she take it up with SM. If she still wouldn't let it be, you could have "tabled" the topic and come back to it when the SM returned. Frankly, someone would have to be extremely abusive before I would ask them to leave. Your goal should have been to diffuse the situation so you could complete the PLC meeting. While not nearly as satifying as tossing her sorry butt out of the meeting, simply putting her off would have allowed you to accomplish your goal. As I said, I'm not criticizing you in the least. You were left in a bad situation. And honestly, not many adults could have handled the woman any better. But take the opportunity to give some thought as to how you could have handled the meeting differently.(This message has been edited by Twocubdad) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurie Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 At the risk of sounding redundant, it sounds as though some training is in order. Maybe there has been some, but a refresher never hurts. In this case, maybe a meeting between you, the Quartermaster, and a third party who is more neutral could sit down and discuss roles more clearly. Though I am waiting on my own training now and have never been a Boy Scout, I would think that telling him the troop is his only family would be not the be the right thing to say. However, in his leadership position, he is to carry out the role he has as it is described in Scouting books. It would be fair to point out that going to his dad to fix a problem with you rather than coming to you directly would not be proper. The "chain of command", so to speak, should be reiterated too, and if he has a problem with you, he should know who to go to with that problem. Ideally, it would be someone other than his father. Likewise, you need to have an trusted leader to talk with for advice. I just don't think anything will be resolved though until you and he, with someone to monitor and aide your discussion, sit down and work through this. The health of your troop depends on this. That his father is the ASM really does not matter. That his mother is married to an ASM does not matter. That you are a SPL does matter; that he is Quartermaster does matter. Now, how do you work together for the sake of the troop? You've quite a challenge ahead of you, but I do believe that working through this will help you to become stronger and more capable in future decisions and in future relationships. Like it or not, this is the kind of stuff that helps define who we are--that helps us to learn life lessons that are very valuable. Best wishes to you, and please keep us posted.(This message has been edited by Laurie) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bt01 Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 Speak with tactfully and say that her son is welcome but she has to work on her allude when she works with the youth and the adults of the troop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior_Patrol_Leader_T15 Posted October 4, 2003 Author Share Posted October 4, 2003 EMERGENCY!!!!!!!!!! The woman that we've been takin about is trying to come on our camp-out this month to Vicksburg! Is there any rules against a parent coming on a trip if she is not a chofer or driver. Please tell me immediatley, our whole troop awaits my answer to if she legally according the BSA regulations that if she can come or not!!! I beg of you!! Please help!! Or else this time the results wont be pretty at all, due to that every parent wants to get even her for ordering their sons around. But if she gets on to me I have a bullet proof plan. But the boys dont! Please post again before the night is up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evmori Posted October 4, 2003 Share Posted October 4, 2003 There is really nothing in the BSA rules & regs to stop her from going. My only suggestion would be to get the PLC together & try to get a Troop rule passed that all adults on the trip must be trained & registered with the BSA. All other adults are allowed to visit outings & trips but not allowed to participate as leaders. They can only be observers. If I was your SM, based on what you have posted, I would back this decision by the PLC 100%. Ed Mori Scoutmaster Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twocubdad Posted October 4, 2003 Share Posted October 4, 2003 Just curious, SPL, what has you SM said or done about the situation since the original incident? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGreyEagle Posted October 4, 2003 Share Posted October 4, 2003 I know i am a little late in this, but it seems like this woman is a cross betwen Cruella DeVill and Snow Whites Wicked Stepmother and makes the Wicked Witch Of the West look like Pollyanna. If she is this bad, its not up to the boys to handle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evmori Posted October 4, 2003 Share Posted October 4, 2003 OGE is a wise bird! But is sounds like the resident adults won't stand up to this lady so the Scouts have to. Ed Mori Scoutmaster Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeilLup Posted October 4, 2003 Share Posted October 4, 2003 With sincere respect for evmori, it is not the place of boys or the PLC to tell parents what they can and cannot do. They can make requests, but decisions about adults need to be made by the SM, the Troop Committee or the Chartered Organization. There really seems to be a problem between you, SPLT15 and this woman. It is not fair to you to ask you to handle this kind of situation with an adult. I would suggest that it is inappropriate for an individual who is not a registered leader routinely to participate in camping activities. There are certain youth protection and other procedures and trainings which apply to registered leaders. But, again, it is not your place, SPLT15, to tell an adult and a parent that they cannot go on a campout. That is the job of the SM, the Troop Committee or the Chartered Organization. I also, quite frankly, am uncomfortable with the PLC having a personal discussion about a parent. I can understand it, but if I were the SM, I would stop the discussion and say "I'll handle the matter." And I would. So I would suggest that you, SPLT15, need, if you can, to place this monkey where it belongs and that's on the back of one or more adults. I would suggest that you ask to talk with the SM, discuss the matter and your concerns quite frankly, and ask your SM to take action to see that the problem does not arise. Suggest to the SM that if he believes the matter isn't for him to handle, you will go with him to the Troop Committee to discuss the problem. From what you have described, it seems somewhat likely that the SM will say that it's not that serious a problem or will not want to get involved. Express again your concern and note the problems that the woman has caused for you as SPL and, in your opinion and observations, for the Troop. Ask the SM to be available on request at any time to assist you and tell the SM that you would like to take any problems to him. Then if ANYTHING starts to happen on the campout where she starts to come at you, politely ask the woman to go with you, right away, to the SM. Get him involved. Do that each time. If you see her getting on other Scouts, go to the SM right away. But let an adult be the one that handles the problem. Also, I might suggest keeping a notebook of incidents. In that way, if there ever is any kind of discussion with the Committee and/or the Chartered Organization, you will have facts. But, and I know this can be difficult, try extremely hard to be objective and non-emotional. You are really going to be hitting her hot buttons. Her reaction may not be pleasant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob White Posted October 4, 2003 Share Posted October 4, 2003 SPL T-15 It is unfortunate you were put in the position of having to confront the parent at your meeting. The SPL's responsibility as explained in the SM handbook and the SPL handbook is to chair the meeting and help the PLC to plan and carry out a troop program. The SM's job, according to the same resources, is to keep the group on task. I would classify controling adults as the Scoutmaster's responsibility. By the way this is the very reason why the SM should be the only adult involved in the PLC meeting. I recommend you talk to the SM and strike an accord that you focus on controling the PLC and he takes responsibility for controling adults. best of Luck, Bob White Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior_Patrol_Leader_T15 Posted October 4, 2003 Author Share Posted October 4, 2003 Thank you all for your answers and opinions. But, the reason no one wants to say anything, is because she is too well known in the communtiy and her husband is the mayor of a local communtiy near our hometown troop. And if word get out that a Boy Scout troop got rid of her it would be in the papers and the papers get on the side of who ever is in office. There fore leading to our troops fall. We are small, 12 people only and we cant afford to lose any kids no matter how much we disagree with their beleives. Now here's another idea. If I with the PLC made up a list of rules and regulations for the committee to follow and the committee voted yes on them, could that be fair? See in our troop, its an unestablished law for each SPL to do some sort of project. Is this thing ok? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob White Posted October 4, 2003 Share Posted October 4, 2003 SPL, For the leaders to allow a youth to confront the adult to protect themselves from being hassled is just plain cowardly. As far as the PLC setting rules if the committee accepts them is fine, but just because you create rules isn't going to change this woman's character or behavior. Someone still needs to keep her from interrupting your meetings, and it needs to be another adult. There are other ways to deal with her than to throw her out. But that is for your adult leaders to decide and is not something you should have to worry about in any way. Bob White Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evmori Posted October 4, 2003 Share Posted October 4, 2003 Bob White another wise bird. Speaks truth. It seems from all the posts that no adult in this Troop has the stones to stand up to this lady. That's why I made my suggestion that the PLC draft a rule dealing with this & get the committee to approve it. Once this is done it is the job of the SM to deal with this lady. SPL T15 stated that if his Troop kicked her out it would be all over the papers since she is the mayors wife. Don't kick her out! Force her to leave! Creating a rule in the Troop about this is one way to start. Ed Mori Scoutmaster Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sst3rd Posted October 5, 2003 Share Posted October 5, 2003 I don't understand why this is NOT getting through to you, SPL. It is not for you and/or the PLC to make up rules for the Committee to vote on, etc.. The Scoutmaster and/or the Committee Chairperson is responsible for the operation of the Troop organization through leadership training. If a parent (in this case this woman) wishes to stop by a meeting or even go on a camping trip, she can. She does NOT have to be a registered leader in ANY way. HOWEVER, the SM and CC are charged with making sure these visitors clearly know where they can be, and what they can do. This is obviously not happening, and this is where the problem is. It's really that simple. For you and the PLC, it is a moot point. The SM and the CC need to get off their cans and take care of this problem NOW, small Troop or not; politics are not. SPL, operate the Troop as you have been trained. You and the PLC need to ignore her, walk away from her, leave her in the room by herself, politely talk around her, leave her alone, whatever it takes, until she gets the idea, OR your SM and CC take care of this. Do NOT let this stop you from growing this Troop's program and membership. You appear to be a dedicated youth leader. Go for it !!!! sst3rd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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