What do I do with an adult that isn't a leader but continually interferes?

[Senior_Patrol_Leader_T15]

I have this lady in my troop

She has a son who is a smart mouth and her husband is an assistant scoutmaster who knows less than a second class about skills.

 

Well, she came on our summer camp in her

words "a free vacation"

 

Well, she had been bosing everyone around, and keep in mind she has no leadership position, and when her son did something wrong or mean, and I got own to him, she would get in my face.

I finally got tired of it

 

I talked to my Scoutmaster, and he told me that when I had my PLC with the assistant scoutmaster and patrol leaders,if she butted in and contradicted everthing I said to ask her to leave

 

Well, it happened and I told her to excuse herself from our meeting

 

She blows up mad and gets in my face and her husband, the "assistant" scoutmaster didnt try to stop her one bit

 

the scoutmaster came in and seperated us and we continued the PLC elsewheres

 

well, after the meeting was over, me, the scoutmaster, and assistant scoutmaster talked about what had happened

 

We came to an agreement that I did the right thing, and the lady cant volunteerly come to any more camp outs

 

Now what I want to know is if I did the right thing, and if there were any alternatives?

[Eamonn]

Dealing with adults is never easy.

In fact at times it is really hard.

As to if you did the right thing?

Right and Wrong are sometimes hard to get too.

The real person who needs to know the answer is you.

Take a look at the Scout Law and Oath.

Did you live up to them?

When you got on to the son, were you getting on to him as a way of getting back at his parents?

Could you do something to help the Dad improve his Scouting skills? Would this come under helpful?

You might want to have a chat with the Scoutmaster and set up a rule of who is and who isn't to attend the PLC.

As for the Camp outs. While this Lady might seem like a real pain, she might now be a little worried that you are going to get on to her son again.

Please don't feel that I'm picking on you. This living by the Scout Law and Oath is not easy.

Some of us old folks have been at it a long time and are still trying to get it right.

Eamonn

 

[Rooster7]

Some Scouters, without question, will agree that you did the right thing. However, I'm not going to be that generous. While I understand your predicament and appreciate your frustration. I feel the situation could have been handled with much more tact. First and foremost, I do not believe your Scoutmaster shirked his responsibility and gave you bad advise. You made him aware of the problem. Instead of addressing it with her (and/or through the committee) prior to the PLC, he threw it back in your lap. Second, your job is to lead the boys in the troop. You are not responsible for setting adults straight. If I was your Scoutmaster, I would have had a polite phone call with this woman (if possible) advising her that she needs to be aware that the troop is boy run/lead. I would have forewarned her that if she wanted to attended a PLC that she would need to remain silent. Then, if she chose to behave as you described, I (as the Scoutmaster) would have asked her to step outside of the meeting area and gave her one last chance to save face. Boy run is great. However, I do not believe it should ever be used as a pretence to circumvent or breakdown the decorum and respect that young boys should show adults. While her behavior may have been reprehensible, a Scout should set a better example.

 

Of course, to your credit, it was your Scoutmaster who put you in this awkward situation. Given the aforementioned, and the fact that your Scoutmaster gave you specific instructions as to what you should do, I can hardly scold you. However, in retrospect, when the Scoutmaster gave you this direction, you could have informed me - I dont feel conformable reprimanding an adult. Wouldnt she be more receptive to you as an adult leader? I really feel strongly that he should not have put you in that particular situation. It wasnt fair to you (and if you enjoyed it, shame on you). And it wasnt fair to the woman. Even if folks feel she deserved to be humiliated (which I hope was not anyones goal), a Scout should not have any part of it. I strongly suspect that if this woman was a friend of the Scoutmaster, he would have handled it much differently. In fact, I strongly suspect that perhaps the Scoutmaster was not very fond of this woman at all. He had to realized that if you were forced to follow his advise that it had great potential to humiliate and exasperate her. I dont care how wrong an adult may be, your Scoutmaster should have never put you in a situation like this. It was his job to protect you from adult interference.

[ozemu]

These people can be very awkward to handle and difficult to bear.

 

I have one such mother in mind. She buts in, overwhelms with talk, is totally interested in her kids and always asks for an easier path/special consideration for them, and hitches a ride on any good idea regardless of the difficulty it causes others.

 

I say shoot her.

 

But that probably isnt good advice.

 

 

Regardless of your maturity you are in this situation still dealing with a parent and Rooster is spot on. It was the SMs job. In fact here - it is mine. I hate putting her straight on youth run / challenge rather than doing the minimum / doubtful evidence of skills etc. I still do it though. Being a bloke I find that she is more eloquent (certainly copious) and I figure out exactly what she has arranged afterwards. Even though I was there the full ramifications of what transpired dawns on me later. So your SM may be in a similar predicament.

 

Pls be carefull. If you treat the son just the same as others then she will still snipe at you. Make double sure of how you deal with him. Seek peer and ASM/SM advice often even if you dont need it. It will help answer her accusations of picking on him later.

 

Maybe you could have simply called the meeting off to another time instead of dealing with her. But you didnt. So dont worry about it. These people will manufacture situations to their advantage and few of us can keep up with them. Anything you did she could have outmatched to her advantage. You were going to lose. That is if she is anything like the one I deal with.

 

And try to keep emotion out of you actions. If she is in your face try to back away gratiously and deal with it after you have had time to think it through. No body should think worse of you for doing so in anything other than an emergency. She is probably well known as control freak - so keep your dignity - people will respect that.

 

Eamonn said consider the law and promise. Good advice. But being right will not mean feeling good / satisfied / content with what you did or need to do. It will be hard regardless.

 

Do you your best. As you have.

 

 

[Fat Old Guy]

I'm with the flightless bird from down under except that shooting her is too good for her. Tie her to a tree in bear country and slather her with honey.

 

We have a mom like that in our troop and I can appreciate your predicament.

[Eagle Foot]

I'm with tieing her to the tree!! Sounds like some folks may not be trained.

 

If they are they need a refresher course. I've seen this and been there. My only suggestion other than the tree is to talk with your SM in privite with your COR... do not do this one on one it may turn into he said, she said, they said type of talk and nobody made any progress.

 

Troops should be boy run, with the adult SM insuring that the program is being presented. See what you can get from the PLC and make sure it follows the Scout Law & Oath. Our goal here is not to get ride of anyone but to find workable solutions. Most think of BSA as camping, knots, good deeds, and helping others. Boys would like to be with boys and the adults giving them this oppertunity.

 

Does your troop have a troop guide? A lot of good troops have them just for these type of problems...but there only good if the committee, PLC, SM and other leadership stick by them.

 

Scouts is for you the scout not the adult...you may have to visit another troop that provides this, you need to be happy where your are. I just hate it when an adult pushes their weight around and doesn't have the full understanding of how it all works. If enough boys do the right thing I think it will change. Good luck

 

Comments form Eagle Foot

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[saltheart]

You did the right thing.

 

It is not the responsibility of Scouts in the troop, leaders or not, to make sure that adults in the troop, or just hanging around with the troop, know their place. That is the singular responsibility of the trained adult leaders. And your trained adult leader, the SM, performed that task poorly, as did the womans husband, the ASM. The SM and/or the troop committee should make it their business to inform all adults that participate in Scouting events of just where they are welcome, and where they need to stay firmly in the background and silent.(This message has been edited by saltheart)

[NeilLup]

You may think that becoming an adult is a matter of having a 21st birthday, etc. It is not. It is a matter of the kind of experiences you have just had. You took a major step in becoming an adult. Congratulations.

 

My cousin makes the distinction between adults and "tall people". Just because someone is a tall person does not mean they will behave like an adult. You still do need to show them appropriate respect, just as we all do. But you know the difference between an adult and a tall person. When you have to deal with a tall person, you have to try to do your best.

 

Did you do right? Well, you certainly didn't do wrong. There were a number of acceptable things you could do and what you did was one of them. Might there have been a way which would have ended up with less acrimony. Possibly, but I wasn't there and likely wouldn't know if I had been there. That's one of the things about being an adult. You are faced with a situation, you do your best and you take what comes and move on.

 

I completely agree that your SM put you in a difficult position. He may have chosen to be a tall person rather than an adult in this case. If the woman is the way you describe, that might be understandable.

 

Still, the Scout Oath and Law do not require you to be perfect, or to succeed. They just require you to do your do your best. You did that in a difficult situation. Congratulations.

 

Also, you are now assessing your actions and asking if you could have done better and how and why. That's what an adult does. Congratulations.

 

As a final thought, it is possible that you did have some enjoyment of telling this woman off. If would be difficult not to. That may have shone through. You might note that and if, in the future, you find yourself really enjoying this kind of situation where you know that you have license to tell somebody off, then realizing that it may be a problem.

[Senior_Patrol_Leader_T15]

Thank you all for your messages

 

She was told after the sumer camp was over not to interfere anymore.

 

Yes, in regret, I did get some enjoyment from this, but I never would have done this asking her to excuse herself if I wasn't given permission to by my my SM, but I don't blame him. The reason I enjoyed it was because she was a pain from Cub Socuting up, and no in the Troop likes her, but never had the guts to tell her. I'll be back on about 5:00 this afternoon to talk some more.

[Fat Old Guy]

"Yes, in regret, I did get some enjoyment from this,"

 

Don't regret it. One of life's few pleasures comes when a pain in butt gets set back a notch, much like when the opposing quarterback gets sacked. However, don't lord it over her. Don't throw it in her face. Just go on as if nothing has happened. Let her be the one who says, "Are you going to kick me out of the meeting again?"

 

 

[SMT376Richmond KY]

To follow on the last post. If she does ask "are you going to kick me out of the meeting?" You simply respond all scout fucntions are open to parents as casual observers. Parents are only asked to leave if they step out of this role.

 

I feel for you I too have had a parent like this while Cubmaster. Thank god she has decided that her son will go to another troop. However, she is attempting to take the other webelos with her and telling them not to join our troop as "it's too new and you won't do anything fun cause they don't have any money." Well we've been on 5 campouts, 1 hike, on swimming trip to the local state park pool since we started this last March. This weekend we are going to a civil war reenactament and will participate in the National Historic Trail Award. We have plans for camping again in November and caving in December then camping again in Jan. So for a new troop we are pretty busy.

 

Good luck.

[dan]

Why is this adult in the PLC meeting?

The only adult that should be "at" the PLC meeting is the Scoutmaster. I am pretty sure either the Handbook or the SM handbook states this, I will check it tonight when I get home.

[Laurie]

I think your honesty and your willingness to evaluate your actions is refreshing and will serve you well. This will not be the last time you have this type of issue though, so perhaps it would be a good time to review how to address those tough issues--maybe some role play in your patrol leader meetings? Part of the problem, if I am understanding you correctly, is that you have a history with this woman. Right now is the time to sort through what is your dislike of her due to history and what is her true problem with her right now in the troop. She's a mom, not a leader, but she shouldn't be excluded from everything. So, now that you're stuck with her (for lack of a better way to say that ), how will you personally put the history behind you and focus on how best to work with her now? You are getting good advice, and you are demonstrating maturity. Good for you!

[Rooster7]

I have to disagree with FOG and SMT376Richmond KY. If your troop allows adults to attend PLC meetings to observe, then an adult leader should be there to protect you from interference. You should never be put a position whereas you feel the need to reprimand an adult. I think it is very inappropriate. Furthermore, I think you demean yourself and your reputation as a Scout when you do this. While I certainly don't care for this woman's behavior, I think you're crossing a very important line between adults and boys. It's a line that needs to be crossed by your Scoutmaster or the Committee Chair, not a Boy Scout.

 

One of the reasons I appreciate Scouting, it teaches young boys to maintain a strong character even in the face of adversity. You will be the better person and a shining example, if you are able to resist the easy temptation to put this woman in her place. When I think of a Scout, I see a boy (actually, I hope to see a young man), who refuses to be enticed or bullied into striking out. I see a young man who is respectful towards adults even when one of those adults may be acting like a horses rear end. When youre older, I think you will be happier with yourself, if you convince the Scoutmaster that this is his job rather than enjoying a cheap moment of vindictiveness against this busybody. She may well deserve a good lecture, but I think it should come from another adult.

 

[evmori]

WOW! Make sure she never signs up as a leader!

 

And Fat Old Guy is correct! Shooting her is not painful enough!

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10