BartlettBear Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 So I've recently joined a unit that has plenty of heart, but no organizational skills or planning whatsoever. "Billy", according to the random assortment of evidence I've seen, has earned his Eagle. There are dates for everything. However, Billy has never been registered in the troop. It's a religion-sponsored unit and while Mom didn't want him officially associated with the unit and church, she had no problem with him unofficially attending as long as Billy's name wasn't anywhere. Billy has never appeared on any roster I've seen, his dates are on a skimble-skamble collection of bluecards and papers and books, and the council has no record the kid has ever existed. Because this kid has never been registered. Well, Mom and Billy now want the Eagle, but I don't know how to go about it. Council has said they can back register him for all the years Billy's been attending, but Mom says no on that. I'm waiting to hear back on other options, but I get the BSA is going need proof of this kid before they print him up an Eagle certificate. I'm a little peeved at the whole situation, but I hate for a kid who as far as I can tell has done all the work for the Eagle being denied it. I don't him to suffer for the actions of his parents and the troop. Any ideas? Any loopholes anyone knows of? Or, any ideas on how to gently (or not) break the facts to Mom? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDPT00 Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 Sounds like mom has an axe to grind. Does she want this to happen, or not?! It also sounds like the council is very willing to do what it takes. She's her own worst enemy. Just get 'er done! BDPT00 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosetracker Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 (as Scooby would say) Rots of Ruck RartlettRear!!! I know Council could back date, we have done it when the paperwork to register is done but not turned in to council for a few months.. But, I am shocked the council would even offer to back date years back.. Basically if he did everything without being registered, he may have learned alot, but unfortunately he didn't earn any Scouting ranks. He officially has not even earns the Scout rank, let alone any rank in-between Scout and Eagle if not registered. This isn't something that locally the council can turn a blind-eye and hand out this award. This award is only given out by National and national needs paperwork IN THE SYSTEM, on when he earned what ranks and merit badges.. National will not hand out the award to someone who has never been a scout. If you don't want to be associated with scouting, you shouldn't want to earn scouting awards! That just kind of is mind boggling.. It's the mother you have to break the facts to. That is obvious.. But, how would you get through to someone who seems that thick headed??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skeptic Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 If mom will not allow the needed paperwork, then it is on her. There is no way around it; there has to be some kine of records. She has no recourse if she continues to refuse the registration and update. Sounds to me like she is simply looking for another publicity event. And of course, there will be people to support her, even though it is entirely ridiculous. The council/troop should get her refusals in writing as protection IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghermanno Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 HUH???? Billy is eligable for SCOUT badge when and if he fills out an application. He can NOT have earned any merit badges as he did NOT have a Scoutmaster and all requirements after Tenderfoot say "Since joining..." The problem is that no one had the kid join so can NOT sign off on ANY merit badge or ANY advancement that states "Since joining..." This is a bogus posting as "Billy" could NOT have "earned" anything but SCOUT. Rick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BartlettBear Posted February 8, 2013 Author Share Posted February 8, 2013 ghermanno, hence my irritation. They've been going on those temporary advancement forms and other old documents for years. Nothing online at all. All the "since joining" dates are as of when this kid started attending the troop. I don't think the prior leaders thought they were being dishonest, but it's a mess. Frankly, I'm still trying to decide what counts, but I believe this boy has done all the work if not thorugh the right means with the right documentation other than blue cards, temporary advancement forms (that never made it to the computer) and all that. moosetracker, the Eagle secretary said he would be willing to accept documents and all the other paper forms of advancement and put them in the computer himself. Apparently he's seen degrees of this before (usually someone drops the ball and a boy misses a year of registration) but not this degree. Then again, he didn't seem pleased about it. I'm more and more inclined to tell these people I wash my hands of it. We all may hate beurocracy, but if it's required you can't just skip it and then complain. They need to make up their minds and this troop needs to do things right or not accept new members. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twocubdad Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 "But mom says no on that." DONE! Next problem? Mommy Dearest made her choice years ago. She's not even changing her mind, she just expects everyone to conform to her view of the world. But she's been given her options and needs to take one. Of if she wants to take the time to negotiate something different with the council/national, let her have at it. Definitely wash your hands of this nut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nike Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 Does Mom have a really good explanation as to why she doesn't want paperwork done? Witness Protection? Yeah, I'm reaching. Otherwise, no, just no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghermanno Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 Bartlettbear, You should wash your hands of it. There has NEVER been a time (in my recolection) that you could be a Boy Scout without joining. The leaders were being VERY dishonest, not only to themselves but to any "Scoutcamp" that he might have attended. Had the youth been hurt, he was not a member. The Blue cards have been required for a few decades. The Troop leaders MUST have known. You can not become a Catholic Priest and not be Catholic, as you can not become a Rabbi without being Jewish. How can he become an Eagle without being a Boy Scout? This is absurd. There is NO WAY he could have signed off on advancement without registering. He would have had to have been on the recharters. I again submit that this is bogus or that the DE/SE/UC/CC needs to be removed for incompetence. Rick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BartlettBear Posted February 8, 2013 Author Share Posted February 8, 2013 This has been an empowering thread. You're right, nothing was submitted to council, no name ever appeared on a charter. I'm letting the Scoutmaster know he can find someone else to take care of it if they think they've earned the Eagle and I will also be sending a complaint about the matter to the DE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krampus Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 Rick: This is a bogus posting as "Billy" could NOT have "earned" anything but SCOUT. Actually, Rick, don't think he could have even earned Scout... "2. Complete a Scout application and health history signed by your parent or guardian." "10. Participate in a Scoutmaster conference. Turn in your Boy Scout application and health history form signed by your parent or guardian, then participate in a Scoutmaster conference." I had an Eagle candidate which got spit back out of the system because his POR dates were input into TM wrong (month/day mixed up). How a Council would let a kid like this get through with records like that?? Would not get past out Troop, let alone District or Council. Take two steps back and punt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sqyire21 Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 I tend to agree with everyone else. "Billy" hasn't earned anything. If he actually completed all of the requirements...including his Eagle Project... how did that happen? While this is a very sad situation... I personally think it should be taken up at the State level...possibly even the National. If the boy honestly did all of the work, and he can produce documents and scout leaders willing to testify to it..someone should consider processing the package. However, that consideration shouldn't be made below the State Level! If the mom is so against doing the paperwork.. someone needs to find out why. There are a few issues which need to be handled at numerous levels.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FScouter Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 Buy an Eagle patch off e-Bay and present it to him at a court of honor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5yearscouter Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 He has to be a member of the organization in order to earn an award within the organization. Make sure mom understands that. Eagle badge cannot be purchased without proof of Eagle (don't go there on the ebay thing) which includes step #1, verifty scout is registered. put it back to mom. make sure SCOUT understands that not being registered is the issue. and then move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dg98adams Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 I would not have anything to do with processing this... I would direct her to the SE and wish them luck. What's your position in the Unit? Just becaue you are new, I think you do not have to clean up past messes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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