Current BSA Policy Vs local option poll

[eaglewolfdad]

You are probably right tcd.

 

At summer camp the white country and suburban folks can make fun of our ethnicity and sexual orientation.

 

Thanks for your kind comments. The response was predictable and of course did not answer my questions as the answers would not help your agenda. I guess those new to posting on the forum should focus on mundane topics to avoid the label of "cub scout parent with 3 posts"

You would be surprised to "learn" that most units are a mirror of society today. We all have single dads, single moms, grandparents and of course economic and racial diversity very much like your own. Not sure that I have ever run across the characterizations that you claim your unit has faced. To a person, scouters have been interested in helping the boys enjoy a safe, fun, and exciting experience at all of the outdoor events. I have had the pleasure witnessing this thru 4 councils in several states.

As for the comment you and twocubdad enjoyed together "a glimpse of the future I 'm afraid"- not sure what you are worried about. Remember that every once in a while a member of the silent majority will enter the vocal minorities space.

I have actually been trying to register for the last 4 months with only recent success. You are directly responsible for my registering as I certainly wanted to respond to the callous discussions and comments regarding children with autism. During the waiting period I have read less than gracious comments about rich packs, children with disabilities. wood badge, right wingers. gay haters, country people, suburban people, religious people, cub scout parent, and the list goes on and on.

Did I get value out of my now fourth post, I suspect I did. Best of luck to you in the future as we all hope that you are able

to pull it together.

[DigitalScout]

The process is odd but I think it's slow for a reason. This is a big change. Change is hard.

 

I would really be surprised if there was a final decision in May. My guess is that they will postpone it as long as possible.

[DigitalScout]

I just completed the survey for leaders. Some of the questions led me to believe that they are not only considering the local option but also considering a uniform policy to prohibit discrimination against gay leaders and scouts.

 

The local option is a compromise policy much like the Missouri Compromise which was an attempt to allow states to choose to be slave and free states. The Missouri Compromise failed and I think the local option policy if enacted is doomed to fail as well. You can't split the baby. Eventually the BSA will have to adopt a uniform sexual orientation non-discrimination policy.

[Kahuna]

I just completed the survey for leaders. Some of the questions led me to believe that they are not only considering the local option but also considering a uniform policy to prohibit discrimination against gay leaders and scouts.

 

The local option is a compromise policy much like the Missouri Compromise which was an attempt to allow states to choose to be slave and free states. The Missouri Compromise failed and I think the local option policy if enacted is doomed to fail as well. You can't split the baby. Eventually the BSA will have to adopt a uniform sexual orientation non-discrimination policy.

I agree, but I think at this point they are considering everything and hoping an answer will fall from the heavens.

[dkurtenbach]

The current policy is already a compromise: gays and lesbians _are_ allowed to be members of BSA as long as they keep quiet about it. Many of the folks expressing anti-gay sentiments don't seem to realize this. Which means it has not been a very useful compromise because it has not prepared the anti-gay folks for the next step.

 

The trick here is bringing the inevitable nondiscrimination policy along slowly enough that most of the opponents will eventually stop struggling and either accept it or slowly fade away without huge, sudden losses. The real issue is whether there has been enough time for that to happen. It has been less than a year since the policy was reaffirmed, after all. "Local option" is the next logical step in the slow march, but doing it now may still be a bit sudden, particularly for large organizations controlled by a small number of conservative leaders, such as major church denominations. They could see remaining with BSA as "guilt by association" even if their own local units can ban gays. They would have little difficulty pulling out, and have the wherewithal to adopt a substitute program more to their liking. That may happen even if the policy is not changed this year -- if they see the writing on the wall, they may start making plans to withdraw anyway.

 

And the writing is on the wall. Society is moving very fast on this issue, and the military's dropping of their Don't Ask/Don't Tell policy is a strong precedent for BSA to drop its Don't Ask/Don't Tell policy. And even if BSA declines to make the change now, we have a federal law charter, and we can expect to see efforts in Congress to amend our statute to make us instantly inclusive.

 

I think possibly "Will you leave?" is the most important question for the voting members going to the BSA annual meeting in May. They have to find the balance between movement toward the inevitable and not crippling the organization. That may mean a compromise other than the local option. Perhaps appointment of a commission to do a long study and report back with recommendations for the 2014 annual meeting (delay for a year but keep it on the table). They may want to consider more radical options, such as creating a parallel Scouting program under BSA's Learning for Life/Exploring program, which already has a non-discrimination policy and already operates units (career-oriented Explorer posts) supported by our local councils. That would allow the current policy to remain in place in traditional units that did not choose to switch over to LFL/Exploring, and thus allow a smaller, more conservative, religious-based Scouting program to continue on into the future even as BSA promotes its more progressive, 21st century, fully co-ed and diverse adventure-based LFL Scouting program. Win-win for BSA, which would keep both Scouting programs under its umbrella.

 

Dan Kurtenbach

Fairfax, VA

[Basementdweller]

You are probably right tcd.

 

At summer camp the white country and suburban folks can make fun of our ethnicity and sexual orientation.

 

Oh so narrow minded......Predictable as you say.

 

My agenda is to grow the troop and pack. Provide/guide them to a great scouting experience. I really hate all of the adult BS that is required.

 

Along the way I have learned somethings.

1. White folks treat those of color with suspicion and regional with hatred and fear.

2. When ever anything at a camp is missing or vandalized those of color are blamed first.

3. Adult volunteers are hard to come by.

4. People are people regardless of their color, education, religious background or sexual orientation.

5. Not all gay and lesbian folks are looking for their next conquest.....Honestly, less so than a few adult leaders I have met lusting after the camps life guard.

 

 

Bottom line is my boys know we are under the microscope at camp... We have to be better behaved mannered and more polite than the rest.

 

Now granted, we are a camp with 20 other units and we have problems from 4 or 5 of them..... The CD has address the leaders of a couple and the entire troop in another instance.

 

Far as pulling it all together....I am good thanks for your concern.

[Eagledad]

>>Niether old nor far right. But I do enjoy firing up liberals who................ I also enjoy firing up conservatives the same way. You see, the problem with the far left and the far right is they …bla bla bla. .

We may or may not agree on things but it's those types of attacks that prevent constructive dialog

[Basementdweller]

Bottom line

 

the BSA will lose, short term, regardless of what happens.

 

No gays vote, corporations and some churches will leave

Yes to gays vote, Corporations and some churches will leave

No vote or postpone, the BSA leadership will appear weak and indecisive.....some on both sides of the fence will leave.

 

No win, in the short term.

 

[Basementdweller]

Dan that would be an interesting turn of events....

 

The congress amending the BSA's charter with a nondiscrimination policy.

 

Puts a smile on my face.

 

[RememberSchiff]

I think a win, i.e. reaching more kids and thus increasing membership, is possible by ending all discrimination (gays, atheists, girls) via local option. We need to get back into schools, military bases,...

 

My $0.02 or more likely 2 aspirin as it will be painful no matter what at this point.

[perdidochas]

I think a win' date=' i.e. reaching more kids and thus increasing membership, is possible by ending all discrimination (gays, atheists, girls) via local option. We need to get back into schools, military bases,... My $0.02 or more likely 2 aspirin as it will be painful no matter what at this point.[/quote']

 

 

RememberSchiff,

 

What do we do about the Scout Oath if we let atheists in?

[dkurtenbach]

Being pro-God isn't as much of a problem as being anti-gay, so there is unlikely to be the same kind or degree of opposition to that BSA policy as to the anti-gay policy. Additionally, BSA's stated position on the religious element is very reasonable and flexible. Unlike discrimination against homosexuals, duty to God permeates every element of our program, and I think it would be impossible to offer a "local option" on God. If BSA had to drop its belief that attention to religious life is important, we are talking about massive changes to our programs, our publications, and our advancement process, right down to altering the language of the Scout Oath and Scout Law. And then we'd lose churches who were okay with dropping the anti-gay policy.

 

Dan Kurtenbach

Fairfax, VA

 

 

[Basementdweller]

 

If you have been involved in scouting very long, you have had the scout tell you they don't believe in god. Whether it is for spite or they are trying to figure out their personal belief system, they tell you.....I have never considered tossing a lad for this and it has never been an issue for my unit.

 

 

Wolfeagle.....I answered your first question.....Far as scouts own goes....We never have them at the troop or pack level because the PLC decides not to do it.....The Pack because every single parent is in a rush to exit camp in the morning...... In your eyes that makes me less of a scout leader....I am good with it....

 

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

I think a win' date=' i.e. reaching more kids and thus increasing membership, is possible by ending all discrimination (gays, atheists, girls) via local option. We need to get back into schools, military bases,... My $0.02 or more likely 2 aspirin as it will be painful no matter what at this point.[/quote'] RememberSchiff, What do we do about the Scout Oath if we let atheists in?

 

How about the same thing when Explorer Posts got moved into L4L. Or make gods optional, like it is for oaths in court.

 

 

As an aside, here's a billionaire former scout on the issue:

ALLEN: Should the Boy Scouts of America rescind its ban on gay members and leaders?

 

GATES: Absolutely.

 

ALLEN: …Why?

 

GATES: Because it’s 2013.

 

[perdidochas]

I think a win' date=' i.e. reaching more kids and thus increasing membership, is possible by ending all discrimination (gays, atheists, girls) via local option. We need to get back into schools, military bases,... My $0.02 or more likely 2 aspirin as it will be painful no matter what at this point.[/quote'] RememberSchiff, What do we do about the Scout Oath if we let atheists in?

How about the same thing when Explorer Posts got moved into L4L. Or make gods optional, like it is for oaths in court. As an aside, here's a billionaire former scout on the issue: ALLEN: Should the Boy Scouts of America rescind its ban on gay members and leaders? GATES: Absolutely. ALLEN: …Why? GATES: Because it’s 2013.

 

I have no problem with the local option for gay leaders/scouts--as long as gay leaders are not forced on every unit--I think the CO should have the choice of leadership of their units. I have a problem with watering down the Scout oath to either be meaningless, or to take out the reference to God.