MattR Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 Well Packsaddle, I just got a survey and it's pretty much what you wanted: 1) Should the National Organization remove the BSA's membership restriction regarding sexual orientation? 2) Would this change to the membership standards affect your involvement in Scouting? 3) If there was no change to the membership standards, would your involvement in Scouting be affected? 4) In your opinion, what is in the best long-term interest of the BSA regarding the issue to remove the organization's membership restrictions regarding sexual orientation? 5) How are you affiliated with Scouting? Question 4 was open and the rest were multiple choice. I suspect leaders are getting different questions than parents. Makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosetracker Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 Just curious about a couple of things 1. How do you conduct "scouts own" services and teach scouts to be reverent using the term "Bible Thumpers"? 2. Trying to understand the adherence to safe scouting guidelines on shooting sports yet your units disregarded BSA policy on gays for the past 5 years. Just looking for clarification How is a Bible Thumper reverent to others beliefs if he has to enforce their belief on others?.. How are they teaching reverent, if they can not be reverent themselves? Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosetracker Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 What is a bible thumper? Barry A bible thumper is not simply a religious person, who has personal beliefs. But, a person who must enforce thier beliefs on others by quoting from the bible, and then interpreting (more like mis-interpreting as every passage has dozens or more different interpretations) it's meaning to bend it to their beliefs.. Then insisting that not only they must follow this narrow minded interpretation, but everyone in the world must follow it also.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nike Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 What is a bible thumper? Barry Mr. D is the very definition of a Bible thumper. The term came into common usage in the early twenties, as far as I can tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packsaddle Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 MattR, that one does look closer to my suggestion. Here's the thing about these surveys: if BSA is trying to find a pattern or trend in the responses then everyone should get the same set of survey questions. The one I got was different from all of the ones I've seen so far in this forum. From someone who is familiar with 'meta-analysis', the more variables that are introduced into the data being analyzed, the more difficult it is to have confidence in any resulting pattern or trend that 'appears' from the analysis. If these surveys vary from council to council or region to region and on top of that, as you suggest, the leaders get different ones from the parents.....there is little about this process that make sense to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DigitalScout Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 The beginning of the end of my unit started tonight.......The phone call I have dreaded happened....One of my Bible thumping parents contacted the COR about the gay leader in the unit. The next phone call was from a Pack committee member, if Mr. J is asked to leave, expect my resignation and the CM, CC WDL and BDL.....that will kill the Pack. I will have lost my second adult for troop outings....killing the troops outdoor program. It is hard enough to recruit volunteers, good ones are like gold, harder yet to get them trained for their positions and then for them to do their job well. To have one person who isn't active in either Units leadership to be able to decapitate both units........... I completely exhausted. I just don't understand the hatred. I ponder my own membership at this point, At least we haven't paid for summer camp yet. I would encourage you to hang in there during this difficult time. This too shall pass. When the gay ban is removed, which is inevitable, then the extremists will hopefully carry out there threat and leave the BSA . Let us know what the COR decides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagledad Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 >>and then interpreting (more like mis-interpreting as every passage has dozens or more different interpretations) it's meaning to bend it to their beliefs..<< How do you know? Is any kind of interpretation really the problem? Several folks on this forum believe the bible is nothing more than an over-interpreted history book. How would they know what is mis-interpreted? From these definitions, I think most of us here are Scouter Thumpers. Barry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basementdweller Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 this is all adult stupidity. the boys don't care that Mr. j is gay, of course we have never brought it up in conversation......But several of the boys have spent the night with Mr. j's son at a sleep over. the next thing that is gonna get asked aren't you worried about scouts being at a gay mans house. While he is a member of scouting, I cannot control, nor should I, what goes on at home. My son has scout friends over to spend the night and play video games, not sure how that is different. The boys just want to hang with their friends having adventures..... Eagledad, I am a man who believes that Truth only exists in the moment an event happens......the second someone sees it and interpret it, to paper or speech the truth of what happened it tainted. Tainted by their station in life, education, and mood. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walk in the woods Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 What is a bible thumper? Barry Niether old nor far right. But I do enjoy firing up liberals who tell me how wonderful and tolerant they are and why I should take their position, then resort to ad hominem attacks if I challenge them on any single point. I also enjoy firing up conservatives the same way. You see, the problem with the far left and the far right is they are both so intolerant that neither can see anything approaching compromise. This results in a constant battle and a constant lack of progress. Life is not a zero sum game but the extremist on both sides fail to recognize that simple reality. We may or may not agree on things but it's those types of attacks that prevent constructive dialog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walk in the woods Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 You are probably right tcd. At summer camp the white country and suburban folks can make fun of our ethnicity and sexual orientation. Sure, because all white country and suburban folks are intolerant bigots? Really? And what does that make you? Sterotyping is wrong Basementdweller. Take a hard look in the mirror. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basementdweller Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 You are probably right tcd. At summer camp the white country and suburban folks can make fun of our ethnicity and sexual orientation. My unit has been on the receiving end of a lot of bigotry. From the country hicks telling my boys that rwaiting tables in the dinning hall is vocational training for them...To the cracks about watermelon served at lake games night...... How about a couple of my hispanic scouts getting stopped and asked to empty their pockets after leaving a camp trading post very recently..... Ya know all of us with a bit of color in our skin are just looking for a hand out or to steal what you have.... My stereotyping the scouting community is what I have experienced. While we are welcomed at camps we are not treated as brothers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevorum Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 Since we can't seem to create new threads ... Happy PI day! Makes me miss Ed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattR Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 Packsaddle, I could see how one survey would be better. I read that they are sending out 1.1 million surveys. With only 3 million scouts, that's real accurate. They'll know unit by unit. The process is odd but I think it's slow for a reason. This is a big change. Change is hard. Maybe they're trying to minimize the fallout. All the talking and blogs and angry comments and grandstanding media sessions are just filler to give people time to come to terms with this. Some will go no matter what but a lot will probably realize that scouts is still a good thing and hopefully figure out how to work the system to get where they want. I don't want to see people leave, no matter their view on this. To me, this process started when the chairman of the board, or whomever it was, said he wanted to change things from the inside, and didn't get replaced right away. That's when I knew this was coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jweaksnc Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 I'm praying we don't do this. It's not wise and it will lead to massive membership losses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horizon Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 I received the survey (answered it for local control, and that my concern is that this entire issue is a distraction from our mission), as did my wife (who is also a registered leader). Our Council is having a meeting to nominate/elect/select our representative as well. I WOULD have been in that meeting, but since our Council eliminated the "parents of" type charter organizations, I am no longer a COR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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