Current BSA Policy Vs local option poll

[TSS_Chris]

This is a proposed resolution. Does that mean this is the only resolution?

Yes. There is a FAQ. It says "This is the only resolution, there won't be another one, and the Executive board won't be looking at this again in the foreseeable future."

 

http://scoutingmagazine.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/membership-standards-frequently-asked-questions.pdf

[DigitalScout]

I agree, a completely absurd resolution. Written by total cowards. Why not give the delegates a resolution worth voting on? Maybe because they knew it would pass and anger the conservatives?

 

I was afraid that the resolution would be a complete cop out. Cowards.

I thought the local option was a bad idea but it looks like pure genius compared to the 50% Discrimination Solution. I'm completely baffled and bewildered.

[TSS_Chris]

Maybe it's time to move over to Hacker Scouts. http://hacker-scouts.org/join

[ghjim]

Youth Study Group

The Youth Study Group (teens 16 to 18) was charged with listening to the voice of youthâ€â€both current members and nonmembers. Harris Interactive was contracted to survey both current youth members as well as general population teens. Key findings include:

Among general population teens and Boy Scouts and Venturers alike, a majority oppose the current Boy Scouts of America membership policy.

A majority of Boy Scouts and Venturers oppose allowing chartered organizations to follow their own beliefs if that means there will be different standards from one organization to the next.

According to a majority of current Boy Scouts and Venturers, the current policy does not represent a core value of Scouting.

 

The Old Goat Patrol never fails to throw Boy Led out the window at every opportunity.

"While a majority of adults in the Scouting community support BSA's current policy......"

"Views among parents under the age of 50 have changed significantly ... with a majority now opposing the BSA's current policy"

 

"Among general population teens and Boy Scouts and Venturers alike, a majority oppose ... the current membership policy".

 

Who exactly are the "majority of adults" who support the current policy? Old Goat Patrol is right. Looks to me like we have a conservative minority trying to control everyone.

[MattR]

My take on this is that it started with the top 70 when they said they wanted a change. They did an informal poll of the councils and came up with the 2/3 want to change it number. They start talking about the change in Feb and the blow back is big, so they figure they'll do a real survey and things will go their way. As the results indicate, it's really a mixed bag. The future implies change is needed but the current membership is on the fence. A little risk analysis - they don't want to walk away with nothing - suggests change the scout policy now and the adult policy can wait.

 

It's interesting how they wrote the results page. In the summary of results, the first four items are "people's views are changing or have changed." The fifth and seventh item is that gay scouts would be tolerated now. The sixth item is all by itself stating that a local option is not favored by a majority. I'm not sure that the result details are really covered by the result survey. The result summary I would think would be closer to the details are that the future suggests change (young parents, kids, cubscouts donations) but that the old folks like it as it is. i.e., changing it all at once is too much.

[Basementdweller]

Guess I was unaware that neutering was part of becoming a member of national.....

 

What a bunch of whimps.........Make a decision all ready....... This has got to be one of the biggest cop outs ever.

 

 

So from the membership side......Is it possible to start a vote of "NO CONFIDENCE" and oust the current leadership??????

 

 

I would live with what ever decision was made......but you have got to be kidding me........

[acco40]

The resolution doesn't make sense if you look at it from a "is homosexuality a moral issue" perspective. However, viewed from the lens of a safety issue, i.e. from the belief that homosexual leaders (i.e. homosexual men specifically) are a safety threat, or to some public relations threat :-) - then it would make sense.

 

I'm not saying I believe it is a good resolution or believe that homosexual leaders are a safety issue but I'm just trying to understand the logic.

 

If passed, I like the idea that the BSA does not defacto exclude youth due to sexuality. This may be an attempt at compromise, a dirty work for the past 10 years or so in our current political climate.

[NJCubScouter]

I am, for once, rendered speechless.

 

I will see if I can remedy this situation tomorrow or so, and write something meaningful. For now, the most meaningful I can muster is "aaaaaggggghhhhh."

 

Or words to that effect.

 

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

This wouldn't even change the situation for youth all that much; if a youth member has any inclination to continue in scouting as an adult, he'll still have to be in the closet as a boy scout.

 

[ghjim]

My take on this is that it started with the top 70 when they said they wanted a change. They did an informal poll of the councils and came up with the 2/3 want to change it number. They start talking about the change in Feb and the blow back is big, so they figure they'll do a real survey and things will go their way. As the results indicate, it's really a mixed bag. The future implies change is needed but the current membership is on the fence. A little risk analysis - they don't want to walk away with nothing - suggests change the scout policy now and the adult policy can wait.

 

It's interesting how they wrote the results page. In the summary of results, the first four items are "people's views are changing or have changed." The fifth and seventh item is that gay scouts would be tolerated now. The sixth item is all by itself stating that a local option is not favored by a majority. I'm not sure that the result details are really covered by the result survey. The result summary I would think would be closer to the details are that the future suggests change (young parents, kids, cubscouts donations) but that the old folks like it as it is. i.e., changing it all at once is too much.

Your analysis sounds reasonable to me. Since few of the more liberal membership (the majority?) have left over the current membership policy it is doubtful they will leave over this. And they have been thrown a bone and don't have to kick out the gay scouts anymore (at least until they are 18).

 

It has been mentioned on this forum that National is now in a no-win position. There is no solution that will satisfy a majority. This proposal probably will result in the fewest number of people pulling out.

 

If the youth membership continues to think as this survey suggests, then the ultra-conservative scouters are living on borrowed time. Ultimately the gay ban will fail. But it looks like it will take more years.

[AZMike]

18. Has or will the Boy Scouts review(ed) the “duty to God†standard?

 

 

No. The Scout Oath begins with duty to God, and the Scout Law ends with a Scout’s obligation to be reverent. Those will always remain core values of the Boy Scouts of America. The values set forth in the Scout Oath and Law are fundamental to the BSA and central to teaching young people to make better choices over their lifetimes.

 

So, at least that won't change.

 

 

[King Ding Dong]

Congratulations on your Eagle! You are a fine example of the future of our great country. Now go away and don't let the door hit you in the @ss on the way out.

[AZMike]

This (rather long thread) started with a poll on the Local Option. That is now irrevocably dead in the water / circling the drain / taking the dirt nap / Fill in metaphor of your choice, as the BSA has stated this is the only resolution that will be offered, and that they will not revisit the issue again. Should we start another thread and poll to see how everyone feels about the new option? I suspect it will be unpopular with both sides, as most compromises tend to be, but will probably pass and people will get used to it.

 

And can I ask - does anyone know why the LDS was not included on the survey results? Did they voluntarily decide to sit out, and are they (as some are saying) waiting to vote with their feet if the - what do we call it? - Mugwump Resolution passes? I have no idea what is going on there.

[Sentinel947]

This (rather long thread) started with a poll on the Local Option. That is now irrevocably dead in the water / circling the drain / taking the dirt nap / Fill in metaphor of your choice, as the BSA has stated this is the only resolution that will be offered, and that they will not revisit the issue again. Should we start another thread and poll to see how everyone feels about the new option? I suspect it will be unpopular with both sides, as most compromises tend to be, but will probably pass and people will get used to it.

 

And can I ask - does anyone know why the LDS was not included on the survey results? Did they voluntarily decide to sit out, and are they (as some are saying) waiting to vote with their feet if the - what do we call it? - Mugwump Resolution passes? I have no idea what is going on there.

If you actually have the ability to start a new thread, go for it, I believe none of the rest of us do. We get an error message when we try.

[ThomasJefferson]

When you are conducting a survey to help you figure out what to do, you are not "moral." You are not doing what you believe in. You are not leading. You are not standing up for anything. When you need a survey to figure out what your policy is, you are just chasing dollar bills and members.

 

I am an atheist, and I would like to see the policy rescinded, but I would only be satisfied in BSA rescinded all of the membership policy no matter the fallout or destruction it caused, because they realize what they were doing is wrong, and then apologized to everyone wronged in the past and made reparations to all youth denied eagle, all adults previously expelled.

 

The way it is now, they are just pathetic old cowards more worried about money, camps, and their little wood badge club than they are moral men taking a stand on values.

 

This resolution proves BSA is NOT a values based organization.

 

I would have had more respect for my opponents had they simply continued the policy, ignored their critics, and taken the organization deeper into Christianity. At least then they would be looking me in the eye.

 

This resolution, for the first time, makes me think that BSA is not worthy of my energy. Funny, it wasn't until today that instead of seeing them as misguided and old-fashioned, I see them as greedy, selfish, evil, and twisted.

 

Today I am ashamed of my eagle award and ashamed that tomorrow I will wear the uniform.

 

This may be it for me.