Current BSA Policy Vs local option poll

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

If the Local option is passed, the scenario I fear is one where an openly gay person wishes to join a unit, and it just so happens that this particular unit chooses to follow the original membership requirements. (i.e. heterosexual individuals only).

If the person is refused membership to this unit, based on said sexual orientation, and this individual decides to sue, I am guessing that the CO will be the entity that is sued.

 

Will the BSA support the CO, or wash their hands of the incident, and leave the CO hung out to dry?

One incident like this could put a significant financial burden on a CO.

 

Your thoughts?

Currently, ALL BSA charter organizations must legally be able to exclude gays and atheists; that's why public schools had to stop chartering units.

 

Any unit that could, hypothetically, be sued due to the local option could be sued TODAY on the same grounds.

 

PS: OGE, do you know when people will be able to create new topics again?

[packsaddle]

If the Local option is passed, the scenario I fear is one where an openly gay person wishes to join a unit, and it just so happens that this particular unit chooses to follow the original membership requirements. (i.e. heterosexual individuals only).

If the person is refused membership to this unit, based on said sexual orientation, and this individual decides to sue, I am guessing that the CO will be the entity that is sued.

 

Will the BSA support the CO, or wash their hands of the incident, and leave the CO hung out to dry?

One incident like this could put a significant financial burden on a CO.

 

Your thoughts?

Merlyn, I was told that Terry's still working on 'bugs' which, as seems painfully obvious, are numerous in the new site. I'm not sure how long it will take.

[OldGreyEagle]

test test test test

 

[OldGreyEagle]

So, Has Smith College in Northampton, Ma ever been sued for sex discrimination?

“They didn’t go to Smith†“Go to Smith, she couldn’t even spell itâ€Â…

 

Or the Catholic Church, as they don’t ordain women as Priests, have they been sued for sex discrimination?

 

After all the pleas for the Local Option, why has no one ever mentioned the CO being sued until now?

 

 

[packsaddle]

So, Has Smith College in Northampton, Ma ever been sued for sex discrimination?

“They didn’t go to Smith†“Go to Smith, she couldn’t even spell itâ€Â…

 

Or the Catholic Church, as they don’t ordain women as Priests, have they been sued for sex discrimination?

 

After all the pleas for the Local Option, why has no one ever mentioned the CO being sued until now?

 

'Grasping at straws' is the phrase that comes to mind.

[skeptic]

So, Has Smith College in Northampton, Ma ever been sued for sex discrimination?

“They didn’t go to Smith†“Go to Smith, she couldn’t even spell itâ€Â…

 

Or the Catholic Church, as they don’t ordain women as Priests, have they been sued for sex discrimination?

 

After all the pleas for the Local Option, why has no one ever mentioned the CO being sued until now?

 

Because it is simply another illogical fan the paranoia idea. Remember, a large number of people that post here have no idea how the charter arrangement works. Many do not even know the difference between types of units and the various levels of membership. Not sure why, but feel much is due to laziness and accepting anything they might see posted by a "supposed" authority.

[SSScout]

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"Current BSA Membership Policy[/TD]

 

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This was emailed out from our council ofice today as a reiteration of current policy, before the coming "survey":

 

While the BSA does not proactively inquire about the sexual orientation of employees, volunteers, or members, we do not grant membership to individuals who are open or avowed homosexuals or who engage in behavior that would become a distraction to the mission of the BSA. Scouting believes same-sex attraction should be introduced and discussed outside of its program with parents, caregivers, or spiritual advisers, at the appropriate time and in the right setting. The vast majority of parents we serve value this right and do not sign their children up for Scouting for it to introduce or discuss, in any way, these topics. The BSA is a voluntary, private organization that sets policies that are best for the organization. The BSA welcomes all who share its beliefs but does not criticize or condemn those who wish to follow a different path."":

"

 

[SSScout]

Whoa, that was strange - - - -

[moosetracker]

The 70% in favor of a local option here matches that of the polled number from the councils. With 70 samples here and 294 council samples (364 total), and 1,039,825 adults in the bsa (from wikipedia), the margin of error is just over 5%. This assumes the poll is random. Still, this is a surprising number to me.

 

Maybe the silver lining of the way this has been handled is that it will start the conversation within the boy scouts. That could make 16 weeks waiting a good thing in the long term.

who says all who vote a preference for the policy to remain the same will walk, Huzzar?.. That's like saying that the 70% (currently 67%) who vote in favor of the local option will walk if the BSA vote to keep the policy unchanged.. So if that is correct, then I ask you Huzzar, can BSA afford 67% of it's membership to walk?

[packsaddle]

Whoa, that was strange - - - -

The 'ghost in the machine'? I'm going to be a bit worried when the site puts random characters together to form an image of Merlyn's avatar, lol.

[moosetracker]

We had someone at our District committee meeting who has been elected to go to National for the vote.. I didn't realize those voting had to physically go to Texas to do so.. Sounds like he is not voting for the council either, but had to come up with his decision on how to vote on his own, because he has been researching to figure out how he should vote..

 

My initial thought (I admit I was stereotyping), was that his vote would be to keep the policy as it is, because he is very old I'm guessing in his 80's (and I may be being charitable at that), and very religious.. While he didn't openly say which way he will vote, the passage he read out of the boy scout handbook lead me to believe it will be for the local option.. More on the reasoning that "Don't ask, Don't tell" goes against the BSA vision of what it means to be morally straight. It was a very different viewpoint then any I have heard debated on this forum..

 

From the breakdown of the meaning of the Scout Oath. (Chapter3, page 46 of the BS handbook may be off a page or two for different versions.)

... and morally straight.

To be a person of strong character, your relationships with others should be honest and open. You should respect and defend the rights of all people. Be clean in your speech and actions, and rmain faithful in your religious beliefs. The values you practice as a scout will help you shape a life of virtue and self-reliance.

 

Then he went back and reread a few times the phrase, "You should be honest and OPEN with your relationships with others..", and really highlighted this phrase.. I forget how, but at least for me, he drew a correlation that "Don't ask, Don't tell", is a policy that requires people to be anything but honest and open.. It says if you are a homosexual, we will accept you in as long as you are not honest with us.. It promotes something that goes against what we state the meaning of morally straight is..

Now, if our policy was that which stated that homosexuals should be open and honest about their sexual preferences and stay 200 yards back from any ongoing BSA event, how he would vote.. But, my conclusion is that based on the fact that the current policy is that of “Don’t ask, Don’t tellâ€Â.. In good conscious he must vote against the BSA continuing with this policy..

Considering so many have used the “Morally Straight†phrase as the reason why the current policy should be maintained.. Who have basically defined “Morally Straight†to mean, you are heterosexual, not homosexual.. This viewpoint was a unique perspective for me..

Well I really shouldn’t have been all that surprised at this gentlemen’s perspective, this guy is very young at heart, just trapped in a body that is aging. He still looks at the world as a place where he can learn new things and has always been open to different viewpoints.. That he evolved on this topic along with the rest of the world, I really should not have been that surprised. But, I admit, I was.

 

By the way, anyone else handpicked by their council to go to National to personally cast their vote?.. Anyone know if it is one per council, or one per district or what? Is everyone who is going allowed to vote their own mind on the matter, or are some to vote as the representative of the council, and vote their viewpoint.. (I would imagine, they would basically choose someone they know is like-minded with whatever their viewpoint is, that being the case.)

 

[moosetracker]

hmm.. editing went a little buggy.. I tried to edit last post so that "voting" in the first line was changed to "voters".. But it wouldn't let me save my edit unless I entered a title? (not the comment of why I was changing it, but a title..) Yet, although I had an entry field to add a title, it wouldn't let me put anything into that entry field..

 

Well at least the bugs that wouldn't let me log in last week are gone.. Yet still pretty buggy.. I should get myself a jar with a lid with holes punched in it.. I might catch me some rare specimens in the weeks to come.

[RememberSchiff]

Some local councils are doing membership policy surveys, a few others are now hosting education sessions about Boy Scout membership standards. Some sessions are open, some by invitation only.

 

http://www.herald-mail.com/news/local/hm-national-council-of-boy-scouts-of-america-reviews-membership-standards-20130308,0,1774614.story

http://www.northplattebulletin.com/index.asp?show=news&action=readStory&storyID=24998&pageID=3

http://www.michiganscouting.org/SouthernShores/Events/03MembershipStandards

 

Will volunteer feedback affect their respective council vote in May?

[skeptic]

Every council has certain voting members that can vote at the National meeting; usually the Key Three and, depending on the size of the council, member(s) at large. Our small council has 4 total. They just put out a three question survey regarding the issue, sort of. The queries did not mention "local option", only acceptance or non-acceptance of Gays; so do not think it is going to get meaningful results. On the other hand, just got a National survey as well; and it was very specific, and asked for detail as to why and so on. It seemed to be aimed at an honest attempt to get "real" answers. I had to deal with one local member of the congregation at our Methodist sponsor on Scout Sunday. We had a short discussion out in the patio away from the others. Not sure if my answers mollified her, but at least she did not pursue it further. She had gone to the minister, who came to me and asked me to speak with the woman. The church as a whole, is very supportive still.

[skeptic]

Every council has certain voting members that can vote at the National meeting; usually the Key Three and, depending on the size of the council, member(s) at large. Our small council has 4 total. They just put out a three question survey regarding the issue, sort of. The queries did not mention "local option", only acceptance or non-acceptance of Gays; so do not think it is going to get meaningful results. On the other hand, just got a National survey as well; and it was very specific, and asked for detail as to why and so on. It seemed to be aimed at an honest attempt to get "real" answers. I had to deal with one local member of the congregation at our Methodist sponsor on Scout Sunday. We had a short discussion out in the patio away from the others. Not sure if my answers mollified her, but at least she did not pursue it further. She had gone to the minister, who came to me and asked me to speak with the woman. The church as a whole, is very supportive still.