Decision delayed

[ogrethetop]

I'm thinking this has something to do with FOS. Your going to make half mad no matter what, might as well get the money before they leave.

[AZMike]

They don't need to ask every Scouter or parent. They only need to ask about 1500. Do a scientifically valid survey of the local unit volunteers and another of the parents. However' date=' are we all going to be preapred to accept the survey results, whatever kind they might do? PS: If my math is off, Stats was a long time ago.[/quote']

 

Cool! So we can dispense with the whole popular vote vs. electoral college / democracy thing and just have the president elected by a scientific poll of a percentage of the electorate.

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

They don't need to ask every Scouter or parent. They only need to ask about 1500. Do a scientifically valid survey of the local unit volunteers and another of the parents. However' date=' are we all going to be preapred to accept the survey results, whatever kind they might do? PS: If my math is off, Stats was a long time ago.[/quote']

 

Cool! So we can dispense with the whole popular vote vs. electoral college / democracy thing and just have the president elected by a scientific poll of a percentage of the electorate.

Isaac Asimov already did that; see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franchise_(short_story)

[AZMike]

Tech error

[AZMike]

This was released from John J. Halloran, the National Chairman for the National Catholic Committee on Scouting:

 

I'm curious about the reference from National that says their attorneys say the next court case would be unwinnable. To which court challenge were theyt referring? Just any one that came along? Was there an impending specific one that had them concerned? Did they not consider the Dale decision settled case law?

 

I would be interested in hearing Beavah weigh in on this as an attorney.

 

7 February 2013

 

Dear Members of the NCCS, Catholic Scouters & Concerned Parents,

 

I want to thank all those who prayed, attended mass, sent e-mails, letters and phone calls in regards to the potential policy change by the Boy Scouts of America (BSA) on allowing homosexuals in Scout leadership positions. I regret that I was not able to respond to each and every one of you. As I write this, I still have hundreds of unread e-mails. Of the correspondence I did read, they were well written and very passionate in support of one side or the other.

 

You should know that on February 4th the NCCS key leaders attended the Religious Relationship Task Force Meeting. At that meeting, the BSA Chief Scout Executive, National President and National Commissioner addressed those in attendance. Because of the media and rumors, the perception to most Scouters and concerned parents is that this policy change was due to caving in under pressure and selling out for corporate donations. As the BSA Key 3 explained to us, the reason for this proposed policy change was that their constitutional lawyers informed them that they would probably not win the next case on this issue and that the last case was a 5 to 4 decision, which could have gone the other way. They also informed us that by having this restriction, the BSA has usurped for many years the Chartered Organizations ability to select and approve their own leadership as they see fit and not as the BSA sees fit.

 

We also learned that the BSA started addressing this issue last year, but did not bring the major users of the program, faith-based organizations, in on this until a few weeks before the February National Meeting. It is true that BSA has been pressured for years by outside influences but there has been a growing pressure from within to make this change. Even the Task Force, which includes key leaders from the different faith-based organizations that charter Scout units, were divided on this issue. Some of the faith-based organizations would welcome this change. The Task Force did agree on a resolution to ask the BSA National Executive Board to allow more time for its membership to provide their issues and concerns to the BSA leadership before taking a vote on this issue.

 

Most of you should know by now that the BSA National Executive Board has postponed making a decision on this issue until the Annual BSA Meeting in May (22–24). The BSA leadership wants to gather more input from the Faith-Based Organizations, other chartering organizations, local Scout Councils and all those who would like to have their voice heard. The BSA leadership will then present their recommendation to the voting members who attend the Annual Meeting for approval or disapproval.

 

This delay allows us to continue our efforts in ensuring that the issues and concerns of the NCCS are properly addressed and that your voice is properly represented. I am looking at changing part of the format for our Annual Meeting in April (11-14) to allow working groups to discuss this issue and make recommendations. This is such an important issue that it needs to be discussed in as much detail as possible.

 

Many have asked, how can they help or what can they do to make a difference. Here are some suggestions: continue praying on this issue and for us; continue letting your voice be heard at the NCCS, BSA Council & National levels; continue sending e-mails, letters and phone calls to the BSA National leadership and National Executive Board Members. Now that we know it will be up to the voting membership at the Annual BSA Meeting, get with your Council voting members, let them know your issues and concerns, and encourage them to attend the BSA National Meeting. Finally, come to the NCCS Annual Meeting and join in the decision making process so that the NCCS leadership can represent you to the best of our ability. Most of all, be civil in your dealings with those who disagree with your position on this issue.

 

Remember that we are in the Scouting program for the sake of our youth and that our needs and wants should be secondary. Remember that we should not punish the youth by not re-chartering or shutting down any Scout units, especially before a decision has been made. Remember that the youth in Scouting should not be used as pawns to be sacrificed by those for or against this policy to try and gain undue leverage in the decision making process. Remember that all Scout age youth should be encouraged to be part of this worthwhile program, so continue to recruit and grow our Catholic units and membership. Remember to let our Catholic faith be our conscience and our guide in all that we say and do. God Bless.

 

 

 

 

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[5yearscouter]

I'm thinking this has something to do with FOS. Your going to make half mad no matter what' date=' might as well get the money before they leave.[/quote']

 

Yes there are already council saying things to the effect of "you have an opinion on this one way or the other, if so, put your money where your mouth is.

 

[Sentinel947]

Thanks Mike, as a Catholic Scouter, I've been waiting for some direction from the NCCS. I'm happy with their statement.

[Nike]

They don't need to ask every Scouter or parent. They only need to ask about 1500. Do a scientifically valid survey of the local unit volunteers and another of the parents. However' date=' are we all going to be preapred to accept the survey results, whatever kind they might do? PS: If my math is off, Stats was a long time ago.[/quote']

 

Cool! So we can dispense with the whole popular vote vs. electoral college / democracy thing and just have the president elected by a scientific poll of a percentage of the electorate.

I must have missed my BSA ballot in all the e-mail. But then, BSA isn't a democracy of any stripe, is it?

 

I was commenting due to the fact that the most motivated on both sides are going to flood the comment process, very likely not giving a statistically accurate picture of the general membership's thoughts. But, then there are lies, damned lies, and statistics, aren't there?

[Nike]

Our SE was interviewed on the local news last night...said the phone calls he's receiving are overwhelmingly for the status quo. Not that it's his decision to make, of course...

And, here's a photo of kids being shoved out there on the other side.

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/wp/2013/02/08/a-merit-badge-for-bigotry/?hpid=z3

[Nike]

James Dale has chimed in, in case anyone is interested.

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/why-did-i-challenge-the-boy-scouts-anti-gay-policy-because-i-am-a-loyal-scout/2013/02/08/346ebab2-7159-11e2-a050-b83a7b35c4b5_story.html?hpid=z3

[artjrk]

Was just wondering. If the BSA does allow the local option, how far could a gay Scouter rise in the ranks of leadership? District?, Council, National? or will they be restricted to the local level only?

[BDPT00]

To many, the highest 'rank' is Scoutmaster, and that would trump any other position.

BDPT00

[skeptic]

While it really does not surprise me too much, I am saddened by those that simply refuse to allow the expediant decision of Local Option as the logical and workable compromise. What those now demanding total capitulation are doing is attempting to change not just BSA, but any Charter Organizations that would continue to not support the Agenda due to their organization's tenets. And that then puts the LGBT group into the same position it has challenged BSA on in the first place. It would no longer mean a child could not join BSA period, but rather they would have to find a group whose sponsor met their personal criteria. I guess the idea of compromise is now joining the simple premise of common sense. Someone recently stated that the LGBT groups would "never" stop until they destroyed the BSA, and I scoffed, thinking they could actually be reasonable people. And maybe most of them actually are, but the ones pushing things are not it appears.

[AZMike]

While it really does not surprise me too much, I am saddened by those that simply refuse to allow the expediant decision of Local Option as the logical and workable compromise. What those now demanding total capitulation are doing is attempting to change not just BSA, but any Charter Organizations that would continue to not support the Agenda due to their organization's tenets. And that then puts the LGBT group into the same position it has challenged BSA on in the first place. It would no longer mean a child could not join BSA period, but rather they would have to find a group whose sponsor met their personal criteria. I guess the idea of compromise is now joining the simple premise of common sense. Someone recently stated that the LGBT groups would "never" stop until they destroyed the BSA, and I scoffed, thinking they could actually be reasonable people. And maybe most of them actually are, but the ones pushing things are not it appears.

"The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of a passionate intensity. Mere anarchy is loosed on the world, and everywhere, the ceremony of innocence is drowned."

 

Yeah, there should be room for compromise between reasonable people, but those who are pushing this for GLAAD, the ACLU, the LGBT Defense Fund, et al, have a different agenda than making Scouting better, and many probably don't care if they destroy the organization as long as they accomplish their goals. Those who are pushing for a local option on the other hand have the goal of helping Scouting, we just disagree about methods and results.

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

While it really does not surprise me too much, I am saddened by those that simply refuse to allow the expediant decision of Local Option as the logical and workable compromise. What those now demanding total capitulation are doing is attempting to change not just BSA, but any Charter Organizations that would continue to not support the Agenda due to their organization's tenets. And that then puts the LGBT group into the same position it has challenged BSA on in the first place. It would no longer mean a child could not join BSA period, but rather they would have to find a group whose sponsor met their personal criteria. I guess the idea of compromise is now joining the simple premise of common sense. Someone recently stated that the LGBT groups would "never" stop until they destroyed the BSA, and I scoffed, thinking they could actually be reasonable people. And maybe most of them actually are, but the ones pushing things are not it appears.

You know, if the BSA hadn't been so pigheaded to begin with, maybe this would have never been an issue. After all, everyone in Dale's unit wanted him to stay, but the BSA forced him out.

 

I really have NO sympathy.