Decision delayed

[ghjim]

ghm......so what exactly is that opinion????

 

Good question. My point is that for the first time in a generation we may find out. An earlier post by Lodge was that 70% of the councils favor changing the membership rules. I hope that is true.

[OldGreyEagle]

and 50% of all statistic are made up 75% of the time

[DeanRx]

This was the WORST thing they could have done ! Who exactly are they getting more input from? As a registered leader for the past 7 years, I have never, not once been asked to give my input - fill out an online survey regarding this issue, etc... but they have no problem getting ahold of me for a FOS donation every year!

 

Where is the national meeting in May? Do local councils have a delegation that will attend? Can I send my vote in with the delegation, or is there a place at the national website or a ph number where volunteers can make their voices heard? If so, I haven't seen any...

 

So I call Bull **** on the idea of, "we need more time for more input from our members". Just who are they asking? Certainly no local unit leaders that I know of...

 

National - leaders you are NOT. I don't know who the hell is in charge of PR in Irving, but they (as well as the CSE) should loose their job due to the mishandling of this non-announcement. Either piss or get off the pot! Don't tell the public and your underlings there will be a decision and then decide not to decide. What a crock!

 

You think gays in the ranks goes against a "core belief". What about honesty, standing by your word? What about weighing the facts / consequences and making a tough decision, even when you know it might upset either side of the issue? Is this not the type of LEADERSHIP we are attempting to instill in the youth we serve? Is this not a "core value" as well?

 

I guess some "core values" are more important than others... the ones about where grown men stick their penis to gain sexual gratification seem to be the MOST important to BSA national. Certainly more important than being honest, forthright, dependable, leaders. More important than being a 'man of your word'.

 

No one held a gun to their heads and said they had to have a resolution announced today.... they did that to themselves!

 

Once again - BSA looks a fool in the face of a cynical buying public. And we wonder and wring our hands about WHY there is continued decline in enrollment. This baby needs to be put to bed for good. I know which way I personally would like the decision to fall - but more than that... I want it to be finished. I want to be able to discuss with scouts and parents what the next unit activity will be, what the next service project will be. Not if or when or what some stuffed shirts in TX are going to decide (or fail to decide) regarding an issue that has little to no bearing on the day-to-day activities of my scout's unit.

 

Very few times in my life I have felt disgusted because I was a member of BSA... today, I am disgusted by the organization I serve.

 

Dean

[meschen]

I wonder why I am still amazed at BSA's long and storied history of mishandling public perception.

[MattR]

Here we sit like birds in the wilderness, birds in the wilderness, birds in the wilderness. Here we sit like birds in the wilderness, waiting for National to make a decision.

 

Time for some Cheerful.

 

There are two underlying scenarios. The first is they knew they had the vote before hand. The second is they really didn't know the vote. Given the first, this is just a way for the shock to be accepted with the minimum fallout. Some people are upset to the point of making rash decsions. Given the second scenario, this is what they said it is, namely they want to ask more questions. So, I guess it makes sense.

 

I just hope they ask questions of those that work with the scouts.

[Brewmeister]

What do you expect when you put morality up to a vote...

[Basementdweller]

I am a show me kinda guy.....

 

 

So I would like to see a link or source for the statistic of 70% of councils favor it.

[MomToEli]

I, for one am relieved. You all can bicker all you want. Now I can turn my focus back on to working with my new scouts and getting them assimilated into the Troop. (We are doubling in size in two weeks!) All parents, including my new young scout's two moms, will get engaged and involved. We (the boys) will plan our campouts and get ready for summer camp.

 

I am appreciative that National decided that they need to hear and listen to the voices of those INSIDE the program at least as much, if not more as those outside the program.

 

1.4 million names on an online petition don't carry any weight with me. 1.4 million names of people who have youth in the program or youth who have been turned away from the program (notice I said youth, not adults) carry a lot of weight. Those are the people with a stake in this, not political activists with an agenda who have simply targeted an organization because they are large and visible. In our neck of the woods we are highly suspect of any adult who stomps their feet and demands to be in leadership. There are many ways we can support our sons - not everyone will be a registered leader.

 

So, fight away. But it won't be with me. I am content to wait.

[Lodge 489]

I saw this coming. The executive board is probably just as divided on this issue as everyone else. But the fact the it was even considered is progress. I don't know why they think that there will be any difference in consensus in the general meeting in May.

 

- The BSA acceptance of gay leaders in inevitable as more society is becoming more and more accepting of equal rights of gay Americans. There is not reversing this trend.

 

- ]We interact with gay people is all aspects of our society including our houses of worship, schools, grocery markets, the military, YMCA, after-school sports programs, Boys & Girls Clubs, etc. I'm not sure whey certain people are afraid of allowing gay leaders and scouts in the BSA.

 

- 70% of the COs are religious in nature but only because schools and parent/teacher organizations no longer sponsor troops and packs because of the gay ban. If the ban is lifted hopefully we can get Scouting back into the schools. That would be a great source for new scouts.

Schools will not sponsor units unless you also allow atheists in - it's not just the ban on homosexuals.

[Lodge 489]

Doesn't the goundhog get to go back in his den and sleep till then? Sounds like a plan.

 

Letting the 1400 members vote at the national meeting has to be be better than 15 on the executive board.

 

Does anyone know who the voting members are or how they are selected? I'm assuming council reps.

The National Council is comprised of the following members:

 

All members of its Executive Board

Members of the Regional Executive Committee

Local Council Representatives (president and council commissioner plus an additional member for every 5,000 youth members)

Members at large elected by the National Council for 1 year terms

Honorary (non-voting) members as elected by the National Council for 1 year terms.

[MomToEli]

"If I am following all of this correctly, at least we have a survey of the council positions, something I have never seen before."

 

How come I'm not getting the warm fuzzies with councils being involved? Ours wrote the book on can kicking and finger pointing. It will be another excuse for a non decision come May, blame it on someone else. It's not the yes or no, (our unit doesn't care what is decided, we will do what we've been doing) what bugs me the most is the clowns in TX letting this fester. Lets shoot this dead horse so the media can pick on us for something else, such as teaching kids to use fire arms (what the media calls weapons) or how to burn stuff.

 

Hey Wayne; how about you grow a pair, step up and be a leader.

 

Now there is an idea. If we get pistol shooting into the Boy Scout program (not just Venturing) that will give everyone something else to talk about.

[MomToEli]

I saw this coming. The executive board is probably just as divided on this issue as everyone else. But the fact the it was even considered is progress. I don't know why they think that there will be any difference in consensus in the general meeting in May.

 

- The BSA acceptance of gay leaders in inevitable as more society is becoming more and more accepting of equal rights of gay Americans. There is not reversing this trend.

 

- ]We interact with gay people is all aspects of our society including our houses of worship, schools, grocery markets, the military, YMCA, after-school sports programs, Boys & Girls Clubs, etc. I'm not sure whey certain people are afraid of allowing gay leaders and scouts in the BSA.

 

- 70% of the COs are religious in nature but only because schools and parent/teacher organizations no longer sponsor troops and packs because of the gay ban. If the ban is lifted hopefully we can get Scouting back into the schools. That would be a great source for new scouts.

Our unit has been sponsored by the same small church for 63 years or so. We have never been sponsored by a school. The Pack my son went through was sponsored by the PTA of the elementary school and met in the school. The reason the school itself didn't/doesn't sponsor the Pack is not because of the ban on homosexuals, rather because of the religious (notice I didn't say Christian) aspect of the Scouting program.

[Basementdweller]

Mom...your gonna need to post a link to your stats.

 

 

I signed that petition so I can say with absolute certainty that One Scouter with a boy and soon girl in the program voted for allowing gay and lesbian Adults be leaders.

 

[Sentinel947]

I am appreciative that National decided that they need to hear and listen to the voices of those INSIDE the program at least as much, if not more as those outside the program. 1.4 million names on an online petition don't carry any weight with me. 1.4 million names of people who have youth in the program or youth who have been turned away from the program (notice I said youth, not adults) carry a lot of weight.

 

I've been a member of the Boy Scouts since 2005. Earned my Eagle in 2011. I'm a Volunteer in the Troop I grew up in, I'm a Merit Badge Counselor, and I work with the Council National Eagle Scout Association. I'm one of the 1.4 who signed that online petition that doesn't carry any weight with you. Can you explain to me how I can possibly carry any more weight with you? (I'm 19, so I can't have a son in the program yet.)

 

Yours in Scouting,

[MomToEli]

What stats might that be, Basementdweller? You mean the 1.4 million and where those votes came from? They came from Change.org - that is who produced the petitions that were hand carried with much fanfare to National. It has been all over the news. And anyone can vote at Change.org - from anywhere in the world. There is no stat I need to post a link for.

 

I take nothing away from your signature. YOUR voice should be heard in the mix. You have an investment in the program.

 

For the record, I have the exact same issue with any petitions that may have come from any of the big religious organizations. They don't mean squat to me.

 

I would love to see EVERY registered adult and the responsible adult for EVERY registered youth sent a questionaire. There is likely already a record somewhere of just how many people have actually been removed and those who have applied and been turned away. They should be sent one. Plus, anyone else willing to fill out an application on behalf of their openly gay son needs to be heard from. And then ask the organizations that actually extend the charters -not their national organizations but the ones that really sign the charters. And that is it. Those are the people with a stake in this. Those are the voices I am interested in hearing from.

 

I'm not afraid of that. Are you?