FScouter Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 I am a show me kinda guy..... So I would like to see a link or source for the statistic of 70% of councils favor it. It's true... I saw it on facebook. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basementdweller Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 I am a show me kinda guy..... So I would like to see a link or source for the statistic of 70% of councils favor it. I heard somewhere if you keep repeating it to yourself you will believe it and it will become true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skeptic Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 While I am also a bit annoyed at the delay, I have to say I do not have a huge problem with it, as long as the final decision IS made in May with the voices of the entire voting membership at the National Meeting, and not by a small sub committee. EVERY council has representatives that vote at these meetings. The big issue now is for the local councils to make every effort they can to get the feelings of their ACTUAL members. The local executive boards should make this a priority, and IMO should also do individual community soundings OUTSIDE the local members. Each council could then go with a pretty good idea as to where THEIR council stands, even though it is impossible to please EVERYBODY. At least, if the effort is made locally prior to the vote, then we will have come as close as possible to a reasonably accurate response. Even with all the hoopla going on in the media, it is amazing how many local scouters are still completely oblivious to the whole thing; and very few of the scouts seem to have any idea, even now. Of course I am not making a troop boy survey, and only responding to those parents that bring it up. That is the way it was, and still will be in our unit. Deal with issues when they become distractions and really are problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basementdweller Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 What stats might that be, Basementdweller? You mean the 1.4 million and where those votes came from? They came from Change.org - that is who produced the petitions that were hand carried with much fanfare to National. It has been all over the news. And anyone can vote at Change.org - from anywhere in the world. There is no stat I need to post a link for. I take nothing away from your signature. YOUR voice should be heard in the mix. You have an investment in the program. For the record, I have the exact same issue with any petitions that may have come from any of the big religious organizations. They don't mean squat to me. I would love to see EVERY registered adult and the responsible adult for EVERY registered youth sent a questionaire. There is likely already a record somewhere of just how many people have actually been removed and those who have applied and been turned away. They should be sent one. Plus, anyone else willing to fill out an application on behalf of their openly gay son needs to be heard from. And then ask the organizations that actually extend the charters -not their national organizations but the ones that really sign the charters. And that is it. Those are the people with a stake in this. Those are the voices I am interested in hearing from. I'm not afraid of that. Are you? They can postpone it all they want...... Not going to change my program one bit. So Ultimately I really don't care what they decide Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MomToEli Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 I remember someone posting about a year or so back.. I believe he was a youth, and did admit he was still in scouting, just not coming out.. "You know, the closeted homosexual, that we are suppose to accept, because they are not openly gay".. Some of our conservative scouters called him every name in the book, and acted like he was lower then pond scum.. Yet they say things like "Truely we respect them, just not near us".. I didn't blame him for not returning to the forum. It was not this forum's finest moment..And I was not among those calling him names, as the record here will prove. Not ALL conservatives are total asses on top of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MomToEli Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 They don't need to ask every Scouter or parent. They only need to ask about 1500. Do a scientifically valid survey of the local unit volunteers and another of the parents. However, are we all going to be preapred to accept the survey results, whatever kind they might do? PS: If my math is off, Stats was a long time ago. Maybe they are counting on the 1400 who are involved in the Annual Board meeting to represent the masses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basementdweller Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 I have about had it with BSA's national leadership. I am seriously considering whether I can remain a member of this organization. I have been a scouter for 15 years, pack committee, Cubmaster, troop Committee Chair and for the last 8 years I have been an assistant scoutmaster. I have been crew advisor on 5 high adventure treks. The scouts that joined when my son aged out have just aged out themselves. Most earned Eagle. I have continued in scouting for the boys but I am increasingly uncomfortable with the out of date membership policy. At work I have had to be increasingly cautious about with whom I discuss my involvement in scouting. Eagle92 said it best, we are becoming a "Cultural pariah." Some would say we already are. I guess I will hold on to May but if BSA does not change the policy I will fulfill whatever commitments I have to our troop and then leave. I am tired of explaining my continued membership to my friends, my co-workers and--most importantly--my wife. Just curious, Exactly what is to explain? I had a lady who knows I am a scouter try to pick a fight about the BSA's policy regarding sexual orientation. My response was the fight and decision is above my pay grade and what ever was decided won't impact what is happening in either of the organizations I am involved with. She followed up with doesn't it bother you that............. My response was simply......NO, that isn't how my little corner of scouting is or operates..... I have my boys and a committee of adults to answer too..... The boy don't know or care about it. That is all I have to say about it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MomToEli Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 I think DeanRx says it very well, except that in his last sentence, I wouldn't say I am "disgusted", just very disappointed. I have gotten used to the BSA not handling difficult issues very well, but it did seem like they were moving in the right direction on this one. I still don't get why they would put that statement up on Scouting.org, linked from the front page, if this were not a done deal. As for petitions and surveys, I have not participated in any on this subject. I guess I should decide which is the right way to make my opinions known to National, and do it. It also baffles me that anyone could read the opinions expressed in this forum, many of which favor the change, and still conclude that the impetus for this change is some "outside" group or groups. The people in this forum who favor the change are all active Scouters, with one exception that I am aware of. Additionally, as far as I know, not that it should matter but for whatever anyone thinks it's worth, none of the people actively posting in this forum are gay, or at least nobody has identified themselves as such. (There was one who did, but he has not posted for a number of years.) We're just Scouters who disagree with National's policy and think local option would be in the best interest of the organization, and ultimately in the best interests of the Scouts. Quite simple, actually. I don't believe that we represent a fair snapshot of Scouting in general. There are many people who don't get involved with any type of online forums for a variety of reasons - ranging from limited time to limited comfort with technology to whatever - and of those who do there is a really small percentage that engage in these types of conversations for a variety of reasons - the two biggest that come to mind are, again, limited time and then I've found even in real life few people have the stomach for any sort of controversy or debate. This board alone boasts something like 1400 active members and there are perhaps a dozen of us in this conversation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papadaddy Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 Is anyone surprised by them not making a decision...business as usual. Why do we, the heart and soul of the BSA put up with this kind of stuff. Can we fire these bums?No. We are their customers, not their employers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papadaddy Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 Our SE was interviewed on the local news last night...said the phone calls he's receiving are overwhelmingly for the status quo. Not that it's his decision to make, of course... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MomToEli Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 I have about had it with BSA's national leadership. I am seriously considering whether I can remain a member of this organization. I have been a scouter for 15 years, pack committee, Cubmaster, troop Committee Chair and for the last 8 years I have been an assistant scoutmaster. I have been crew advisor on 5 high adventure treks. The scouts that joined when my son aged out have just aged out themselves. Most earned Eagle. I have continued in scouting for the boys but I am increasingly uncomfortable with the out of date membership policy. At work I have had to be increasingly cautious about with whom I discuss my involvement in scouting. Eagle92 said it best, we are becoming a "Cultural pariah." Some would say we already are. I guess I will hold on to May but if BSA does not change the policy I will fulfill whatever commitments I have to our troop and then leave. I am tired of explaining my continued membership to my friends, my co-workers and--most importantly--my wife. Just know that I've been hearing these exact same comments from people on "the other side". Long time Scouters who are ready to immediately tender resignations if they vote to change. They were ready yesterday but now will wait and see. I have never met a person outside of the Boy Scouts who looked down on me, as an adult, for being involved in Scouts. I have never met a single person, adult or youth, who have complained about the membership policies (though I realize there have been those in different parts of the country) of the Boy Scouts. My son has several years of fundraising under his belt, being one of the top popcorn sellers in the Council for all of Cub Scouts and the first year of Boy Scouts, going door to door to residences and businesses, most of whom we don't know, and never once has anything said they wouldn't buy popcorn or whatever because they disagree with any part of the Boy Scout organization or program. All of that to say what you claim is totally contrary to my personal experience. (Which does not negate YOUR personal experience one bit.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MomToEli Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 Our SE was interviewed on the local news last night...said the phone calls he's receiving are overwhelmingly for the status quo. Not that it's his decision to make, of course...Ours did, too. One area Troop apparently wrote a letter to National in support of the change and that information, along with the unit number, was also on the news. Nothing like sticking your kids right out in front. Maybe that is less risky if you are taking the PC position? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CalicoPenn Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 A Scout is Brave. A BSA Executive Board Member?? Not so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghjim Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 Doesn't the goundhog get to go back in his den and sleep till then? Sounds like a plan. Letting the 1400 members vote at the national meeting has to be be better than 15 on the executive board. Does anyone know who the voting members are or how they are selected? I'm assuming council reps. And who are the members of the executive board? And are they the ones who all these decades have been mandating the membership policies? Or were the put into place by a vote of all of the representatives mentioned by Lodge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghjim Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 I think National made the right decision to delay the vote. The news leak has put everybody into an uproar. The Southern Baptists made the case for the delay so they could mount an organized objection. I have no problem with that. Anything else would have appeared unfair. I agree with Clark Green's position that he takes on his website. There is time for more debate. This thing has been simmering ever since the 2000 Supreme Court decision. We can wait a few more months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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