Gone Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 As usual no one has helped you. The information you are looking for is in this publication [url=http://www.oa-bsa.org/resources/pubs/GOA-2012.pdf]http://www.oa-bsa.org/resources/pubs/GOA-2012.pdf[/url=http://www.oa-bsa.org/resources/pubs/GOA-2012.pdf] This is the guide for OA Officers and advisors. Look at Page 20 (Unit Leader Approval). It states, "To become eligible for election, a Boy Scout or Varsity Scout must be registered with the Boy Scouts of America and have the approval of his Unit Leader prior (bolded in the original) to the election. The Unit Leader must certify his Scout spirit (i.e., hius adherance to the Scout Oath and Law and active participation in unit activities). The Unit Leader must also certify that the nominee meets all specified requirements at the time of this annual election. It is important to note that unlike advancement criteria there is no appeal process for this certification so what the Unit Leader decides goes, and you can tell the parents to pound sand if they do not agree, or better yet refer them to the CC as it is not the SMs job to deal with the parents. That being said further reference is made on page 22 #4 "...who meet all eligibility requirements including attitude and participation..." I believe BSA chose the word "attitude" carefully and the Unit leader has a lot of leeway as to who has the right attitude for OA and who does not. Again, ther eis no appeal process. This is definitely an area where the good Unit Leader needs a spine and needes to stand up to the parents. BSA and the OA give the Unit leader a lot of discretion in this area, and it is up to the Unit leader to maintain the integrity of the OA. If not you, who? This has been helpful to me too. Thanks. Unfortunately I am in the same boat as Krampus in that I get no support from my Troop Committee. If I were to hold someone back without obvious behavioral or attendance issues I would be in for it with the parents and committee. I wish that were not the case. At times I feel like finding a new troop that thinks more like I do but my area also has this culture of entitlement. I'd swear half my parents (and kids) have law degrees the way they argue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Ding Dong Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 As usual no one has helped you. The information you are looking for is in this publication [url=http://www.oa-bsa.org/resources/pubs/GOA-2012.pdf]http://www.oa-bsa.org/resources/pubs/GOA-2012.pdf[/url=http://www.oa-bsa.org/resources/pubs/GOA-2012.pdf] This is the guide for OA Officers and advisors. Look at Page 20 (Unit Leader Approval). It states, "To become eligible for election, a Boy Scout or Varsity Scout must be registered with the Boy Scouts of America and have the approval of his Unit Leader prior (bolded in the original) to the election. The Unit Leader must certify his Scout spirit (i.e., hius adherance to the Scout Oath and Law and active participation in unit activities). The Unit Leader must also certify that the nominee meets all specified requirements at the time of this annual election. It is important to note that unlike advancement criteria there is no appeal process for this certification so what the Unit Leader decides goes, and you can tell the parents to pound sand if they do not agree, or better yet refer them to the CC as it is not the SMs job to deal with the parents. That being said further reference is made on page 22 #4 "...who meet all eligibility requirements including attitude and participation..." I believe BSA chose the word "attitude" carefully and the Unit leader has a lot of leeway as to who has the right attitude for OA and who does not. Again, ther eis no appeal process. This is definitely an area where the good Unit Leader needs a spine and needes to stand up to the parents. BSA and the OA give the Unit leader a lot of discretion in this area, and it is up to the Unit leader to maintain the integrity of the OA. If not you, who? Ha. Just got back a bunch of test results for my 7 year old. 99% Definitely headed to the gifted program. Explains why he is always arguing with me. The problem is he is usually right. It is really going to suck raising a teenager who actually is smarter than me and knows everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khaliela Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 As far as "selecting" adults go, we have the opposite problem. The units know how to go about nominating an adult, but the OA advisers reject them every year. I know this has happened in our troop two years in a row as well as it happening in another troop also. Just because you send in an adult application doesn't mean that adult will be selected for OA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basementdweller Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 So a question to the group..... Who takes your boys to the ordeal weekend???? Well I took my boys that were elected and had been tapped out this weekend.....Looked to be the only SM that did it. I saw a bunch of helicopter parents this weekend while dropping my group off.....Parents carrying their son's gear, medical form and registration standing in line.....Then this morning, the parents going out to the campsite and taking down tents and carrying gear to the cars this morning.....Then the mom feeding her fat boy a mcdonalds big breakfast, never mind he just ate in the dining hall. I was sitting on the porch to the dining hall enjoying the circus.....I am handed a cup of coffee, Fellow i recognize from roundtable.....He was our districts chapter advisor....... He commented that a number OA candidates that can't pitch a tent and several who went home homesick.. I didn't ask about my guys, I know they are solid..... Soon enough my guys came out from breakfast.....Smiling and happy, Soon there was 10 scouts chatting, video games, the event, the upcoming conclave, jambo, chapter meetings. I just sat their and listened to the banter, enjoying the moment.....They carried on till their various parent said they had to go......Brotherhood, It was good to see.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjscout Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 So a question to the group..... Who takes your boys to the ordeal weekend???? Well I took my boys that were elected and had been tapped out this weekend.....Looked to be the only SM that did it. I saw a bunch of helicopter parents this weekend while dropping my group off.....Parents carrying their son's gear, medical form and registration standing in line.....Then this morning, the parents going out to the campsite and taking down tents and carrying gear to the cars this morning.....Then the mom feeding her fat boy a mcdonalds big breakfast, never mind he just ate in the dining hall. I was sitting on the porch to the dining hall enjoying the circus.....I am handed a cup of coffee, Fellow i recognize from roundtable.....He was our districts chapter advisor....... He commented that a number OA candidates that can't pitch a tent and several who went home homesick.. I didn't ask about my guys, I know they are solid..... Soon enough my guys came out from breakfast.....Smiling and happy, Soon there was 10 scouts chatting, video games, the event, the upcoming conclave, jambo, chapter meetings. I just sat their and listened to the banter, enjoying the moment.....They carried on till their various parent said they had to go......Brotherhood, It was good to see.... Yeah,I saw sort of the same thing when I dropped my son at his Ordeal. Parents carrying Rubbermaid totes with their son's gear. I assumed most scouts would have a backpack by this point in their scouting career. Lots of doting parents. I wondered how a scout can get elected into OA without being self-sufficient on a campout. I am interested to see how it goes when I attend my ordeal next month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khaliela Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 I would suspect that the reason you are seeing parents instead of SM’s is that after the SM’s OA application has been rejected he’s not too interested in taking the boys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basementdweller Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 I would suspect that the reason you are seeing parents instead of SM’s is that after the SM’s OA application has been rejected he’s not too interested in taking the boys.I am guessing you made a big deal about the hat thing.. and made some enemy's at council. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Ding Dong Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 I would suspect that the reason you are seeing parents instead of SM’s is that after the SM’s OA application has been rejected he’s not too interested in taking the boys.No. He didn't make a big deal about the hat, they did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwazse Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 Our scouts don't suffer fools, so we've had no problem 1. Our advancement program is "1st class when you're a 1st class scout." We're fine if that takes you 4 years. 2. We camp in a few challenging locations. If all you do is the "car campouts" you won't rack up the nights. 3. We discuss the qualifications for OA on night 2 of summer camp. Elections the next day. The younger scouts will have had 48 hours of data before they cast a ballot. It works for us. Some boys have taken 4 elections. By then they have worked on 4 different character flaws. Younger 1st class scouts get that this is no cupcake walk, and sometimes will ask to not be on the ballot. However, this does not guarantee that a boy would be a good arrow man. Life is busy, and these guys have no clue how hard it will be to dedicate time to the order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basementdweller Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 I would suspect that the reason you are seeing parents instead of SM’s is that after the SM’s OA application has been rejected he’s not too interested in taking the boys.I believe he is a she..... I wasn't there, but from the way the account was written a big deal was made by both parties.... Now a price is being paid......Not saying I agree with it...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basementdweller Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 Our scouts don't suffer fools, so we've had no problem 1. Our advancement program is "1st class when you're a 1st class scout." We're fine if that takes you 4 years. 2. We camp in a few challenging locations. If all you do is the "car campouts" you won't rack up the nights. 3. We discuss the qualifications for OA on night 2 of summer camp. Elections the next day. The younger scouts will have had 48 hours of data before they cast a ballot. It works for us. Some boys have taken 4 elections. By then they have worked on 4 different character flaws. Younger 1st class scouts get that this is no cupcake walk, and sometimes will ask to not be on the ballot. However, this does not guarantee that a boy would be a good arrow man. Life is busy, and these guys have no clue how hard it will be to dedicate time to the order.I can't PM for some reason Q you guys did Dolly Sods in the past.....what loop did you take???? how about water???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huzzar Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 I would suspect that the reason you are seeing parents instead of SM’s is that after the SM’s OA application has been rejected he’s not too interested in taking the boys.I think it's the Pagan thing rather than the hat. The hat just caused her to state she belonged to a religion that her Council probably confuses with atheism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khaliela Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 I would suspect that the reason you are seeing parents instead of SM’s is that after the SM’s OA application has been rejected he’s not too interested in taking the boys.My OA Application was rejected twice. The first time was back in 2007, when they still thought I was Catholic and had just presented me with the Skillin and Extra Miler Awards. The second time was in 2010 BEFORE the Wood Badge Event in June of 2011. In the decade plus that I have been in Scouting I've only known of two adults who were accepted, each from a different unit. The reason being is that our OA rep says that they are only allowed to forward two adult applications per district, based on the needs of the Lodge. Assume the district only has three units who complete elections and the district guys are only allowed to send in one name. Continue to assume that you have the following breakdown of Candidates: #1 is an A+ Scouter with a job as a Retail Manager #2 is a B+ Scouter with a job as a Forester #3 is a C- Scouter with a job as a Journalist. If the lodge is in need of a communications director, the forward candidate #3 and the others get rejected. Some of the units here don't submit adult applications because we have no way of knowing what the lodge needs, so have no idea who to nominate. Those who do submit application know it's a crap-shoot and don't worry about it too much. Why should a SM simply be a chauffeur? Since there is nothing for the SM’s to do there is no reason for them to show up and since so many applications get rejected there really isn’t a reason to see SM’s at the event at all. If all the SM is going to do is pick-up and drop-off I see no reason the parents can't do that and let the SM spend that extra time with his family? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basementdweller Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 I would suspect that the reason you are seeing parents instead of SM’s is that after the SM’s OA application has been rejected he’s not too interested in taking the boys.Reading the application found on the OA website.... To be elected as an adult you really need to have a skill they want.....I was under the impression that the SM's were all automatic.....That doesn't appear to be the case any more. From what I observed on my scouts OA ordeal weekend. It is very Boy led and run....The boys did it all, from checking them in to wrist banding them, to sorting them into groups, leading them out of the dining hall the cooking crew......The adults hung back and were advisors nothing more... It is my opinion that the boys need scouting outside the troop with out the old SM hanging around..... So what do you want to do in the OA and why????? Maybe I am burnt out, maybe just too busy with my local unit......But I am good with bein a chauffeur for once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWScouter Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 As far as "selecting" adults go' date=' we have the opposite problem. The units know how to go about nominating an adult, but the OA advisers reject them every year. I know this has happened in our troop two years in a row as well as it happening in another troop also. Just because you send in an adult application doesn't mean that adult will be selected for OA.[/quote'] This doesn't make a lot of sense to me. If a unit has a scout elected, then the unit may nominate an adult. As of this year, for each addtional three elected scouts, another adult may be nominated. If the scoutmaster is not an arrowman and has been in that position for at least a year, he is automatically nominated. These nominations should be accepted by the chapter and lodge adviser at face value. In previous years, if at least one scout was elected then an adult could be nominated. Another adult could be nominated for each 50 active scouts in the troop. Now the district may also nominate a small number of adults for the OA. District nominations are completely separate from unit nominations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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