MomToEli Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 Packsaddle, I'm sorry if I wasn't clear. I do NOT know how our charter organization will decide in this matter. While we have an excellent relationship with the Charter Organization we personally are members of a different church. I would have to go back and read my original post but I don't recall making reference to any other unit or charter organization. I don't mind questions about how I feel about this matter and will honestly dialog with anyone about it, however we must first agree to honestly represent what the other person has said. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kahuna Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 Terry: A very well thought-out and well written article. I agree with you entirely and particularly when it comes to the issue of gay youth members. Growing up gay or figuring out whether you are gay is an extremely difficult thing for kids, especially boys. To be part of an organization that tells you that you'd be kicked out if they knew is a supreme insult. Obviously, there will be many people who will be unhappy enough to leave the BSA. But many have left us, stopped supporting Scouting financially and even returned their Eagle badges because they saw it as unfair. I think in the long run having this issue behind us will leave us a better, stronger organization. Seeing homosexuality as some kind of evil is a religious thing. Scouting does not take sides on religion. If personal religious views really, truly prevent your being part of an organization that admits gays, then that's how it is. Like you and others, I have kept my own counsel on this until now, but we who feel as you do and I do must speak out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packsaddle Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 MomToEli, OK, I will revise my questions. Here's what you wrote: "To those who believe this will have little effect you are dead wrong. Perhaps not on either coast, or perhaps the large metro areas, but it certainly will in the heartland. As a parent and as a leader this is weighing very heavy on my heart." You seem to support the current policy as opposed to the new policy. Am I wrong about that? Next, assuming you do support the current policy, you seem to be unhappy about this change in policy. Am I wrong about that? Next, you inform us that there will be a great effect. This is my interpretation of your emphasis that those who believe this will have 'little effect' are 'dead wrong'. If little effect is dead wrong, then you must think the effect will be great. Have I misinterpreted what you wrote? And then you write that this is weighing heavily on your heart. If I put these things together I get that you disagree about the new policy, think there will be great effect, and it all weighs heavily on your heart. Since this is about a new policy which shifts the membership policy decisions to the charter organization, I simply don't understand what the basis is for your opposition to the change. Moreover if the charter organization you claim to have a good relationship with is free to make its own membership policy, how does that weigh heavily on your heart? Or is the answer in your next statement: "It will be just as I predicted to a friend of mine this morning - it will be Conservatives like myself and my family who will become targets of intolerance and ridicule." What is the basis for that prediction? Please explain how the new policy in which your CO can follow its own membership policy will cause you and your family to become targets of intolerance and ridicule? I don't understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbender Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 First time / long time (First time poster on "this part" of the Forum / Long Time Reader) Terry: First, huge thanks for these Forums. So many of the ideas that have helped so many of the leaders who help so many of the kids who will help so many in the world for so many years to come . . . have come from those who gather round this internet campfire, this forum that you have fostered. And so many of the ideas that I and others have carried forward have, I am sure, come from so many of our fellow leaders who may well differ on the issue of moment -- the membership policy -- but not the issue of all time -- following the Mission of the BSA (to prepare young people to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law) and the Vision of the BSA (to prepare every eligible youth in America to become a responsible, participating citizen and leader who is guided by the Scout Oath and Law). We may be divided on the issue of membership, but we are united on the goal of the program. Second, what a powerful posting on Forbes. Thank you for sharing. Thank you for persevering and maintaining www.Scouter.com while you felt this strongly. Third, I was away from the program when you left official registration, but I admit that with family, friends, co-workers, co-parishioners and religious leaders who have different orientations, I had to reconcile the conflict when I was called to return to help young people through Scouting . . . and I am, as you, hopeful that we have reached a fair and respectful resolution. Individuals and chartered organizations may differ in this membership policy, but I think we don't differ in the Vision, Aims and Mission, or the value of the Scout Oath and Law. My thoughts on the current choice -- and the freedom of association presented by the proposed change -- have been posted for my Pack for years, now on a page at http://atlanta631.mypack.us/node/2053. I share in hopes that this helps towards understanding and perspective in this. Yours in Scouting . . . Bert Bender, Various Roles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevorum Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 Terry, thank you for your service. Not only in providing the lightening rod IP forums, but in facilitating countless small interactions between Scouters, all of us trying to create a better program for our youth. Scouting is stronger in thousands of units because of your vision, and your persistence. We all salute you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattR Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 Moosetracker, good idea about spinning a new thread. But what forum? There needs to be a new category: Working with Parents. In the meantime I replied to the newspaper that it was too early to talk, and asked if they would they be interested in joining us on our winter campout this weekend to learn what scouts is mostly about. I didn't get a response. I just blew my 15 minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kahuna Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 Terry: A very well thought-out and well written article. I agree with you entirely and particularly when it comes to the issue of gay youth members. Growing up gay or figuring out whether you are gay is an extremely difficult thing for kids, especially boys. To be part of an organization that tells you that you'd be kicked out if they knew is a supreme insult. Obviously, there will be many people who will be unhappy enough to leave the BSA. But many have left us, stopped supporting Scouting financially and even returned their Eagle badges because they saw it as unfair. I think in the long run having this issue behind us will leave us a better, stronger organization. Seeing homosexuality as some kind of evil is a religious thing. Scouting does not take sides on religion. If personal religious views really, truly prevent your being part of an organization that admits gays, then that's how it is. Like you and others, I have kept my own counsel on this until now, but we who feel as you do and I do must speak out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosetracker Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 MattR- just throw it under Open discussion - Program.. It's the catch-all when it could fit into alot of sections - or - none.. Just restate the question as in, but let people know that you don't want to discuss the pros & cons of the decision as there are multiple threads to do that, but rather how to deal with the decision when discussing the issue with your CO and Adult leaders.. (if your CO still wants to ban membership, it might end at that).. More important may be if you think your CO will want to open it's doors.. Then there would be a need to discuss with your committee some of their fears or concerns.. You still might get a few advising you to give up and close the troop down, as all is lost in scouting.. But hopefully between those comments you will get some valuable advice. Oh, about your local paper calling you, you should probably call your council and get a name of who there you should direct them to for comment. Someone at our Council Planning meeting stood up last night and indicated he was the person in our council, those calls should be directed to. I am sure, your council has set up a similar plan.(This message has been edited by moosetracker) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kahuna Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 My apologies for multiple posting. Apparently, my computer locked up on the post and kept putting it up. Too late for me to edit or delete. Mea Culpa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kahuna Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 My apologies for multiple duplicate posts. My browser apparently went bonkers and kept trying to put that post up. Mea culpa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosetracker Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 Lots of double, triple, Quad posts.. For some reason site is slower in returning you back to thread after you hit submit.. It causes people to second guess if they hit the submit button and others out of frustration to click submit rapidly multiple times. I find if I look up at the tab and a little blue circle is swirling round & round, then I did click submit, it's just taking a long time to process.. (I'm on Internet Explorer, so don't know about other web browsers.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skeptic Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 Yep, if your screen shows the active working symbol, then just try and not force it. If the post is really important the way you wrote it, copy and save short term, open a new window or even different browser and go about your business. Come back and check later; if for some reason it did not post at all, try again with the saved copy, or just rewrite and hope it goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hal_Crawford Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 Thank you Terry, for this forum and for your article in Forbes. Over the years I have gleaned many tips and insights into my role as a scouter and the scouting world outside my troop. For those I also thank the many thoughtful scouters who have contributed there experiences, opinions, solutions and tales of woe. At its best this is an outstanding campfire. Ironically, reading several years of I&P posts regarding the membership policy caused me to despair for the organization and question whether I could in good conscience remain a member. Those advocating change seemed like voices in the wilderness, at times overpowered by those who would turn scouting into a club for conservative Christians. I have at times stopped coming to the site for that reason. That the policy is about to change and that our posts on this forum might have had an impact is gratifying. YIS, Hal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hal_Crawford Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 I am so sorry about the multiple posts. I got time out messages after each one so I reposted. I took a chance and removed the other three. It looks like it worked this time. Packsaddle (This message has been edited by a staff member.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hal_Crawford Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 Thanks Pack. Hal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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