packsaddle Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 Did you guys not get the message a few posts back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brewmeister Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 Brewmeister, this move toward local option doesn't alter in the least the standards your CO might want to apply for membership. It means that BSA is giving you and your CO the freedom to choose, just like everyone else. I can't see the down side to that. Clue me in. Sexuality is an adult behavior and as such should never have been a qualification for youth membership. As far as adult leaders go, it will be interesting. I doubt most COs will do anything at all as in my experience most are tangentially involved in their units at best and simply rubber stamp leadership apps. But if they want to be involved and set a standard it will be interesting. So will there be a supplemental app for sexual orientation? Part of the CO's leader interview process? Whatever... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CricketEagle Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 My appologies to OGE...I am going repost part of what I put on another thread. This stinks of corporate lawyer mentality. Push the decision and $ responsibility down to the Chartered orgs who do not have the pockets to fight this fight. My religous charter org would have a fit, and so would I. It is all about money. Corporate/national BSA can then throw up it's hands and say, "it is not us, it is them". (I doubt this will help them get any of that money back lost by losing sponsors) Before people start throwing stones at me, the time my unit spends recruiting those that don't fit in anywhere else (Women leader, troubled boys, at times I feel like I have an MD with all the medical and other issues we deal with). Heck, half my scouts don't want to admit to other boys they are in scouts because they are afraid of being labeled "gay" by fellow students. This will make that situation worse. I can hear the name calling already. It will make the "moma's boys" comments look like nothing. But heck, on the bright side...at least scouts are required to actually light a fire now (again). I wonder where this fits in with the 1916 charter intent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bnelon44 Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 packsaddle, This doesn't change rank requirements. A Scout would still have to live the Oath and Law in their daily life. I can see an atheist talk himself into believing they are still reverent (although that could be because the definition of the word has changed over the years; but I can't see a real atheist (agree, they are really rare in real life) able to discuss how he does his duty to God in his daily life (the Scout spirit requirement for every rank.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horizon Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 If this passes I will finally be able to have our church youth group registered as a Crew. Wahoo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlyn_LeRoy Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 but I can't see a real atheist (agree, they are really rare in real life) able to discuss how he does his duty to God in his daily life (the Scout spirit requirement for every rank.) It could easily be the same as some Deists. Some Deists believe in a god that started the universe, but has NO involvement with humanity at all, and there are no duties toward this god. Such a Deist is presumably qualified for membership, even though their "duty to god" is nothing at all. An atheist, likewise, could just say he doesn't believe gods exist so he has no duties to gods. "It feels like I'm wearing nothing at all!" -- Flanders Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlyn_LeRoy Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 I wonder where this fits in with the 1916 charter intent? Probably better than "The corporation may not operate for pecuniary profit to its members". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmccain183 Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 When we have dropped all of our standards where does that leave us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tampa Turtle Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 I wonder how this will affect the discussion between BSA and the (national) United Methodist Church on the recharter issue. Will the UMC just push this down to each local church? I know of two UMC churches in my neck of the woods and I think one would be OK with gay leaders and the others not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bnelon44 Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 > An atheist, likewise, could just say he doesn't believe gods exist so he has no duties to gods. I really can't see an Eagle Board accepting "I have no duty" to any of the Scout Oath duties. It would nullify the meaning of the oath as an oath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlyn_LeRoy Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 > An atheist, likewise, could just say he doesn't believe gods exist so he has no duties to gods. I really can't see an Eagle Board accepting "I have no duty" to any of the Scout Oath duties. It would nullify the meaning of the oath as an oath. What about my hypothetical Deist who also has no duties to his god? Is he kicked out too? If so, why? There's no "standard" list of duties you MUST have to gods in the BSA, is there? If there are required duties, list them. If there are none, then how can coming back with an empty list be unacceptable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CricketEagle Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 "If there are required duties, list them. If there are none, then how can coming back with an empty list be unacceptable?" Sounds like a participate award to me. Not like something earn and that speaks of character Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlyn_LeRoy Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 So Neil Armstrong should have been kicked out for being a Deist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CricketEagle Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 Merlyn, Yes....and like any another, he would be free to form his own organization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packsaddle Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 Brewmeister, "So will there be a supplemental app for sexual orientation? Part of the CO's leader interview process?" That might be an option for your CO. Others might decide that sexual orientation isn't important. cmccain183, If you get to set your own standards, how is it that they've been dropped? bnelon44, how do you think Buddhists answer that question at present? CricketEagle, "Sounds like a participate award to me. Not like something earn and that speaks of character". That would be how it sounds to you. I have heard similar doubts about the award as it is now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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