Columbine had an armed Guard

[Basementdweller]

Just heard on the news tonight that columbine had an armed guard.

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/21/columbine-armed-guards_n_2347096.html

 

 

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2012/12/21/columbine_armed_guard_colorado_shooting_shows_that_nra_s_shield_program.html

 

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/23/us/mixed-reaction-to-call-for-armed-guards-in-schools.html?_r=0

 

 

Thoughts

 

 

[Brewmeister]

Well, if we follow the logic being espoused lately that one=all, we should eliminate all armed guards everywhere because they are ineffective.

 

 

[Basementdweller]

Just as completely banning every single firearm would prove nothing

 

 

A single armed guard per school proves nothing. so whats he gonna carry, MP5, P90??? something newer?????

 

Is he gonna take a bathroom break or sick day occasionally????

 

Is he gonna be at all the after hours activities??

 

 

(This message has been edited by Basementdweller)

[Brewmeister]

So then let's issue every teacher a Glock .40 with their contract and have them go to firearms trainingi during inservice.

 

About a year or so ago a state senator in my state proposed arming faculty, He was laughed at, at the time. Now it's back in the news. Interesting stuff.

[Twocubdad]

Taking a break from the immediate debate, did anyone catch this in the Huffington Post article:

 

"...having armed security on-site failed to prevent the deadliest mass shooting at an American high school.

 

"In 1999, Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold killed 15 people and wounded 23 more at Columbine...."

 

My first reaction was, "wait a minute -- Columbine isn't the deadliest school shooting." So I re-read the section. "...the deadliest mass shooting at an American high school...."

 

Do we really require supurlatives for everything? Would the point have not been made if Columbine were further down the list? Or is this just more of the subliminal bias we accept in reporting these days -- not that we should expect any better of the HP.

 

You are now returned to your previously scheduled discussion, already in progress.....(This message has been edited by Twocubdad)

[qwazse]

3 million armed teachers. Average class size of, say 25. We'd be betting that over year or two that no more than one of those teachers would unload their clip(s) on a class. Or rather, that no more than 26 students will be killed nation-wide because of the policy.

 

And, moreover, that all of psychopaths in the country will see classrooms with armed teachers as a deterrent.

 

Long odds, if you ask me.(This message has been edited by qwazse)

[Basementdweller]

I don't know if you have actually looked at some of the teachers you are talking about arming?????

 

Now it might be an urban school system kind of thing.. I am not comfortable with some of those folks bein armed around my kids.

 

Twocubs......All of the countrys I listed in the other thread reacted to mass killings by firearms. Germany, Norway, and great Britain all have shootings....... Heck one of the School Shootings in Great Britain was done by a Scouter, well ex scouter.(This message has been edited by Basementdweller)

[Papadaddy]

Sen Barbara Boxer proposes using the National Guard for school security. Where do we find these morons....and why do we elect them to office?

 

https://pandaunite.org/ndaa-national-guard-for-school-security/

 

 

[ntrog8r]

Yes, there was an "armed guard" at Columbine.

 

However, in accordance with established protocol at the time, he LEFT the school and did not enter. The responding law enforcement then took up positions outside the school to secure a perimeter before entering.

 

It is true that armed people outside a building where murder is being done will have little effect. That's why Columbine - and most other jurisdictions - have changed their protocol. Now they enter to locate and engage the murderer(s).

[moosetracker]

In the past all banks had an armed guard. I thought it was just my suburba that no longer has guards, but I heard not even big cities have them. Why? It didn't really do much to prevent the crime. It was just the target of who to take out first. They did get the servalence and better safes, that do about as much preventative as the guards did.

 

Yeah, arming teachers not so good. Thinking of my son's teachers (and some of my past teachers) some may have been fine, but at the elementary level you can find some of the most meekest, mildest timid people I ever met. Others are pretty insane. You kindof need insanity to work with some of the middle school, high school set. A few definately could turn their gun on their own students if provoked enough. There would definately more of an uptick in highschool student shootings, if you have their teachers walking around with a loaded gun strapped to their hip.

[Reasonable Rascal]

Israel had a problem with terrorist attacks on schools once upon a time. So they armed the teachers and the problem basically went away. Guess what, the teachers haven't been shooting up the schools either.

 

RR

[Eagle732]

"In the past all banks had an armed guard. I thought it was just my suburba that no longer has guards, but I heard not even big cities have them. Why? It didn't really do much to prevent the crime. It was just the target of who to take out first."

 

Hmmm, which teacher is carrying concealed? Is it the principle, the gym teacher, the librarian, or is is it the history teacher?

In the mean time the bank guard is standing at the door, in uniform, with a gun in plain view. I'm not seeing the comparison here.

 

Look up the word "concealed","To keep from being seen, found, observed, or discovered; hide"

 

 

[Eagle732]

As far as Columbine goes instead of reading biased articles from the the HuffnPuff Post why not read what really happened.

http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2000/columbine.cd/Pages/NARRATIVE.Time.Line.htm

 

Deputy Garner was eating lunch in his patrol car outside of the school when the shooting started. When he arrived at the he engaged the shooters. He failed to stop them but his being on scene and engaging them did allow for some students to escape.

 

"Despite their injuries, Patti Nielson and Brian are able to flee into the school library while Harris and Klebold are distracted by the arrival of Deputy Gardner. Gardner has just pulled up in the lower south parking lot of the school with the lights on his patrol car flashing and the siren sounding"

 

The gunmen started shooting at 11:19. No armed security was in the building at the time. NO ARMED SECURITY WAS EVER IN THE BUILDING UNTIL 12:06 WHEN A SWAT TEAM ENTERED THE BUILDING! For 45 minutes the gunman had free reign in shooting and bombing the school.

 

Also this in reference to the wounding of a teacher: "A group of students, including two Eagle Scouts, Aaron Hancey and Kevin Starkey, gather around him, attending to his injuries and administering first aid."(This message has been edited by Eagle732)(This message has been edited by Eagle732)

[Beavah]

Israel had a problem with terrorist attacks on schools once upon a time. So they armed the teachers and the problem basically went away.

 

Of course Israel has mandatory military service for all citizens, men and women, of at least two years, and everyone under age 40 is an active reservist. So those teachers have a heck of a lot more trainin' and experience than ours do.

 

B

 

[moosetracker]

So are you stating your armed guards will never take a lunch break, or need to use the bathroom, or after two to five years of day after day, doing nothing because no armed nuthead has come in, didn't get bored and take a nap, or just read a magazine, or start to daydream.

 

Who does have the conceled weapons, the teacher -or- perhaps the 16 year old drug dealer student? Perhaps the student who needs the weapon can just knock the teacher with the weapon out and take his gun. I mean normally a conceled weapon is spotted pretty easily. Maybe it will just be alot of good kids, but many without very good decision making skills, and a thrill of risk taking. If guns are acceptable in school, a rule about who can and can not have them is worthless. Whats good for the goose is good for the gander. It will take on about as worthless a meaning as schools who have cell phone bans.

 

Either way conceled weapon or not, doesn't slow all of them. The excitement of an actual gun battle is just more challenging and exciting. Especially if they are planning to not live through the event.