Oh those pesky assult rifles......

[Eamonn]

I'm not sure what's reasonable.

Not being a gun owner, I'll admit that I don't know very much about guns.

 

I know that most days on the TV news there seems to be a story about young men shooting and killing each other or some poor person who just happens to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

This isn't a good thing.

I'm not sure where the guns these guys use come from?

My guess is that most are obtained illegally.

What sort of guns are they?

I don't know.

I really don't think me knowing what brand what number or the technical stuff makes a lot of difference to me.

 

Keeping firearms out of the hands of people who will use them to do harm.

Seems like a good idea.

But this is a very tall order. A lot harder than it sounds.

 

It is a shame that people on both sides of this issue seem to want to go deep into one side or the other.

One side seems to want to outlaw any and all guns, while the other side talks about prying guns from dead stiff fingers.

There needs to be a sensible conversation with both sides.

Ea.

 

 

[Nike]

I'm in favor of mandatory liability insurance for every firearm. Policy limit could be determined by magazine size at $250,000 per shot, or something similar. Of course, this would only affect legal and responsible gun owners and not solve our real gun problem which is illegally possessed hand guns used by the average criminal.

[nldscout]

Do you have $250K in liability insurance on every knife you own, or how about on each of the tires of your cars? Thats a stupid and rediculous idea.

 

Here in NNY owning guns is a part of life. I have close to 50 all are legal. I have a Bushmaster, plus several others on that list. Cases of Ammo too.

 

Its my business what I collect, guns happen to be one of my hobbies.

 

Have my guns killed anyone, not lately, because I have no intention of shooting anyone. But don't tell me to give up my guns, it might change my mind.

 

PS: I am ready for the Zombie Apocolypse are you?

[Eagle732]

Take the time to read these two short articles from some very knowledgable experts. These guys have been taking about this for years, notice the date of the first article is May of 2010. I attended a seminar that Grossman spoke at, he is right on.

 

http://www.policeone.com/active-shooter/articles/2058168-Active-shooters-in-schools-The-enemy-is-denial/

 

http://www.policeone.com/active-shooter/articles/6067353-Newtown-shooting-Why-Minutemen-can-protect-against-active-shooters/

 

We know what one deranged individual with little training and planning can do in an unprotected environment. Consider what a team of fully supported, highly motivated and trained terrorists could do. Now do we waste time with simple minded schemes advanced for political purposes or do we address the problem with action?

[JoeBob]

Eagle 732: GREAT articles.

 

"Well, in 2004 we had a new all time record 48 dead in the schools from violence. How many killed by fire that year? Zero."

 

But youve still got those fire sprinklers, those fire exit signs, fire hydrants outside, and fire trucks nearby! Are these fire guys crazy? Are these fire guys paranoid? NO! This fire guy is our A+ student! Because this fire guy has redundant, overlapping layers of protection, not a single kid has been killed by school fire in the last 50 years!

 

But you try to prepare for violence the thing much more likely to kill our kids in schools, the thing hundreds of times more likely to kill our kids in schools and people think youre paranoid. They think youre crazy. ...Theyre in denial.

 

 

I love this guy:

Equip every cop in America with a patrol rifle. One chief of police, upon getting rifles for all his officers once said, If an active killer strikes in my town, the response time will be measured in feet per second.

[gsdad]

The ignorance of people really shines when it comes to "assault rifle"

 

A flash hider does not hide the shooter's position, it lessens the muzzle flash seen by the shooter. Clips hold papers, magazines hold catridges. My bolt action rifle has more effective range than my AR-15, which I might add hasn't assualted anyone.

 

I am sick of the " I own a gun, but don't own semi-auto so they should ban them" crowd. I don't smoke, and abhor the smell and filth that accompanies it, so let's ban tobacco. My dad was a belligerent drunk, let's ban beer and booze, my brother is an addict, let's ban pain killers.

 

I have a license to carry, I carry wherever legal. That includes den meetings, pack meetings, and outings. I noticed one other parent that does.

 

We can legislate common sense. The CT shooter committed over 20 felonies, more laws and regualtions won't stop this type of behavior.

 

The police can't protect us everywhere we go, the SCOTUS ruled they have no duty to do so either. The most effective way to stop a bad guy with a gun, is a good guy with a gun.

[Tampa Turtle]

Lets see...

 

(from Gov websites for guess-estimation)

 

I looked up there (round number) are about 100,000 public schools in the U.S. Majority Elementary. Average salary for law enforcement is $50,000 + Benefits say $20,000. Lets just round it to $75k per officer. Figure 1.5 officers per school (because folks get sick, and some schools are bigger and need more than 1) = 100,000 * 70,000 * 1.5 = $10,500,000,000. 10.5 billion. If you want a (minimal)guard presence.

[Basementdweller]

GSDAD since I was the target of your rant.....

 

I never said I did not own one of the fire arms in the list.....

 

I own several on the list, so I am talking about self regulating. I have a couple of hundred rounds in a variety of calibers, I reload my own too..... Everything from a 17 Ackley Hornet thru 7.62 x 51..... So I enjoy fire arms...

 

I am a gun owner and I believe that enough is enough....

 

I am not some idiot spouting about being prepared for the zombie Apocalypse. Or spouting off that a guy doesn't know what a flash hider is?????

 

Reasonable discussion, but I see that isn't possible for the gun NUT crowd.......So when the rest of America says they have had enough and comes for your guns then what.

 

 

We got guys talking about being prepared for the zombie Apocalypse, folks suggesting added insurance

 

 

The best part of this entire discussion for me is how much fear YOU live in. I am glad that isn't how I think or live my life.

[SSScout]

 

For your book club discussion:

""The Weapon Shops of Isher"" by A. E. Von Vogt (1951) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Weapon_Shops_of_Isher

 

http://www.pdfdocspace.com/docs/43088/a-e-van-vogt---the-weapon-shops-of-isher.html

[noname]

So we the legal law abiding should not own the same type of weapons as the bad guys to defend ourselves? Mmm- Sorry but I want to protect my butt and those around me. Schools are gunfree zones- bad guys follow the law dont they. The media/public figures/movie stars do not want us to have protection but their body gaurd can. What 'all for me and none for thee..."

[Beavah]

I have a license to carry, I carry wherever legal. That includes den meetings, pack meetings, and outings. I noticed one other parent that does.

 

Yah, hmmm....

 

Good heavens, gsdad. Why?

 

I'm a hunter, more waterfowl than deer, and I'm OK with semi-auto pistol. But those things are just hobbies, eh? Pastimes. Like Scoutin'. I don't need to wear my scout uniform to da office under my suit. Don't feel da need to carry my fishin' rod strapped to my back just in case a trout wanders by either. Not sure why I'd want to walk around with a firearm all day long, especially in Scoutin' where da community norms and G2SS are not to. Besides, too many restricted zones in my line of work.

 

Intelligent, competent law-abidin' folks carrying doesn't bother me, either, especially if they don't have kids around who might gain access. We trust our fellow citizens with all kinds of dangerous things, most notably automobiles. I think there is some small measure of safety gained by allowin' some folks to carry, particularly retired or off-duty law enforcement or military (though both also have their cases of mental illness that have led to multiple shooting deaths as well, eh?). Da odds of such folks bein' present and able to react with a clear line of fire in such sudden incidents are pretty darn low, though, so it's hardly more than a marginal chance for improvin' outcomes. It's not da panacea that some suggest.

 

Beavah

 

[perdidochas]

The horror in Connecticut was not caused by guns, it was caused by a failure in our mental health system and his mother. This boy needed help, and didn't get it. No "reasonable" gun control scheme I've heard suggested would have stopped this.

[gsdad]

Beavah

Because bad things happen everywhere. If I knew there was going to be trouble I would pick a new destination.

 

http://news.yahoo.com/scout-leader-fatally-stabbed-ind-hiking-trip-071727953.html

 

BD

If you're not living in fear, why do you carry a pistol? I don't live in fear. I believe in being prepared. What you are describing is the erosion of our gun rights, start with evil black rifles, magazines over 10rds, and keep chipping away.

 

As for the zombie apocolypse, please. I want to give people a Gibbs smack when I hear that noise.

 

I hunt, shoot for fun, and started dabbling in competitive shooting. If I see ammo on sale, I buy some. This way when I want to go to the range I don't have to hope WalMart or the like has what I need. .45Colt is hard to find at times.

 

As for how many kids would have been saved had the shooter been limited to 10rd magazines? None, because he picked a school. A target he knew would not fight back. The same reason that wacker in Aurora chose that particular movie theater, it was the only one of seven near his home that was posted a "Gun Free Zone"

 

 

 

 

[WasE61]

It boils down to need vs. want.

 

You want an Uzi, AK, AR-15 or MAC-10. Whether to target shoot or to shoot your home intruder. You don't need them. If you have so many home intruders that you need a 30 round clip, perhaps its time to move.

 

I grew up with guns, so did my wife. My wife was a competitive target shooter (22 and hi-power) Olympic potential. Her Dad is a "gun-nut" ... a total whack job with an arsenal.

 

We have guns ... most of which were given to us via estates, parents, etc. We never take them out of the locked gun cabinet...no need to.

 

I don't know what's "reasonable" but I feel that what we have now is not "reasonable".

 

 

[Beavah]

Yah, gsdad, da clip yeh linked to is a good case in point, eh?

 

Da fellow with the knife approached the scouter from behind and stabbed him in the neck.

 

Even da best-trained person who is carryin' isn't goin' to prevent that sort of completely random violence. So da notion that carryin' amounts to bein' prepared or some form of critical safety is just silly.

 

Yeh are more likely to be killed or injured by lightning or a tree fallin' over than by that sort of random attack. Are yeh packin' a lightning rod and grounding wire and a concealed chainsaw?

 

Shootin' is a fine sport/hobby/recreational activity. Folks put in time and get pretty good at it da way they can with any recreational activity. Let's just be honest about it bein' just a recreational activity, eh? Not wannabe law enforcement or citizen militia or whatnot. I like to think I'm a good pilot, but I'm not parkin' my plane in da driveway ready to escape da end of da world in three days, or fend off da airborne terrorists. It can stay at the airport where it'll wait patiently 'til whenever I have time to go enjoy that hobby again. Added bonus in that it keeps da kids in da neighborhood and others from messin' with it.

 

Beavah