Making Sense of the Senseless

[packsaddle]

Oops, must have touched a nerve there...do I sense a tipsy furry fellow at the wheel sometime in the past?

Yes, I have no tolerance for drunk driving. It's a personal thing.

 

Getting behind the wheel drunk is no accident. The driver hasn't tripped on the sidewalk and accidentally imbibed excess alcohol. If he kills someone as a result, the dead person and their family will be little consoled by the 'intentions' of the driver. I am absolutely intolerant.

 

The driver should do serious jail time at the least. With permanent termination of driving privileges once he's served the time. The victim's family should take his wealth as well as that of his family.

 

[Tampa Turtle]

Ah heck in Florida folks kill pedestrians and bicyclists all the time by sheer carelessness and I wonder if they even get points on their license. I am the main pedestrian and bicycle planner in my local government so the issue (which is complicated with lots of folks to blame)is frustrating and at times hopeless.

 

My wife reminds me that some things can change if enough everyday people push to make it happen. Not always but sometime.

 

At 50, I have seen some pretty big social changes that looked unlikely as a child: Smoking bans, gay rights, inter-racial marriage. Drunk driving is tougher now. So, on occasion, change-for better or worst--does occur.

[Tampa Turtle]

I saw on the Yankee Council website:

 

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It is with great sadness and a very heavy heart that we share that two of the children lost were new Tiger Cubs in Cub Scout Pack 170: Chase Kowalski and Benjamin Wheeler. Three other families in the Pack lost children at the school, and Tiger Cub Den Leader Peter Baressi was a First Responder hero who stayed with the families throughout this ordeal. Victoria Soto, one of the hero teachers, was an Explorer as a youth in Stratford EMS Post 4911.

 

Chase and Benjamin, two would-be Eagle Scouts, and all those lost Friday will forever be in our hearts and prayers.

 

Scouting families across our Council, across the country and even around the world are asking the same question everyone is: What can we do?

 

As a Scouting community, we come together especially in support of the Kowalski and Wheeler families. The Pack 170 leadership has asked that we set up a Memorial Fund to support the five families and donations can be made out to "Pack 170 Memorial Fund" c/o Connecticut Yankee Council, PO Box 32, Milford, CT 06461. We are working with Newtown Savings Bank to establish this fund.

 

In an effort to assist the families, we will collect cards and letters which can also be addressed to "Pack 170" c/o the Connecticut Yankee Council, PO Box 32, Milford, CT 06461.

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May I suggest those so moved to do something can at least reach out here. It is not much but something.

[Beavah]

Oops, must have touched a nerve there...do I sense a tipsy furry fellow at the wheel sometime in the past?

 

Nah, your spidey sense gets a Fail. Da Beavah is a light aircraft pilot. Twelve hours from bottle to throttle for me at a minimum, no matter what da throttle is. Yah, maybe an exception when stayin' on da ground for a small mug of beer, given enough time, but nuthin' more.

 

As someone with some experience with such things, though, I'm suggestin' that a measure of wisdom and compassion is preferable to a lust for vengeance. We do recognize alcoholism as a disease, eh? And alcohol is often enough a self-medication for depression. I'm not entirely convinced that da response to da byproduct of a disease should be criminal in every case.

 

Other pilots will tell yeh that there are similar prohibitions to gettin' in da pilot's seat if yeh are takin' cold medication, because that impairs reaction time and judgment too, eh? In fact, takin' a dose of Benadryl impairs driving performance more than blowin' a 0.1% I wonder how many folks have been killed by drivers on other meds besides alcohol; I suspect it's quite a few. We just don't have any mechanism to track it, because in da U.S. our Puritanical roots focus so much on alcohol. Then we get into da number of people killed or seriously injured every year by elderly drivers, and da enormous lobbying effort to prevent restrictions or tighter standards on them.

 

If we feel an alcoholic should be severely punished for not havin' da judgment to refrain from driving while impaired, shouldn't da same severe punishment apply to da senior citizen who didn't have da judgment to refrain from driving when no longer fully capable? Or the fellow with da cold who took an OTC prescription ignorin' da caution label? Or the mom runnin' a bit of a fever that morning but who needed to get her kids to school? Plus with all da current "research" on distractions bein' da equivalent of drivin' drunk, shouldn't da same apply to the scouter who gets distracted by kids in the back seat?

 

Yah, yah, we tend to find da most fault and demand da most severe punishment when we're talkin' about other people's difficulties, eh? When it comes to applyin' da same standard to our own hobbies and foibles, not so much.

 

Beavah

 

[packsaddle]

Like I said, it's personal.

"We do recognize alcoholism as a disease, eh? And alcohol is often enough a self-medication for depression. I'm not entirely convinced that da response to da byproduct of a disease should be criminal in every case."

Then treat the disease. But if they get behind the wheel, prosecute them. Their choice. There's nothing about alcoholism that requires driving to qualify.

I'm not after them in every case. Only those cases where they do harm to others. I don't understand why you want to treat the perp with compassion and haven't said a damn thing on behalf of the real victims.

And yes, I would apply the same standard to anyone who knew they were unsafe to operate a vehicle and did it anyway. If a stroke takes a driver out, completely unexpectedly, that's one thing. But if someone knows they are at high risk of it, they shouldn't be pushing tons of metal at high velocity through society. If they hurt someone because they were that thoughtless about the welfare of others, you bet, I'm ready to reciprocate.

Take them off the highway permanently. Put them in jail as the criminal they are. Take their wealth to attempt to compensate the victim's family.

 

I will never serve on a jury because on the questionnaire I respond honestly: that I have a permanent prejudice against drunk drivers and a permanent contempt for attorneys who defend them. You've provided me with no reason to reconsider.

[Beavah]

I don't understand why you want to treat the perp with compassion and haven't said a damn thing on behalf of the real victims.

 

Because you're not attackin' da victims, eh? When fightin' fires, yeh pour water on da fire, not da lake.

 

I reckon I've pulled more injured or deceased folks out of cars than most posters here, and that I have had more family members murdered by knife or gun violence than most as well. Yeh do go through shock and righteous fury and depression, in some sort of form or order with these things. I hope and pray that most folks eventually make it to sadness and back to da land of the living, where there is faith, and hope, and compassion, and some sense of rationality in thoughtfulness and selection of responses.

 

At least, that's what I'd suggest as da best course.

 

Beavah

 

[OldGreyEagle]

Sorry Beavah, I cannot agree with you on this

 

If death appalls us, all death should appall us and I do not underst

and the reluctance to say drunk drivers get a pass

 

Mick Vick of the Eagles did time for his role in dog fighting. Heinous enough, he deserved what he got. People picket games he plays in because he is getting payed to play football.

 

Donte Stallworth of the Patriots killed a man while drivng drunk. No one pickets his games and its not mentioned. Dogs are more well regarded than a human life? Its ok because he was drunk

 

There is a cottage industry of lawyers who get drunk driving sentences overturned. If a lawyer gets a drunk driver off and the driver kills or maims, the lawyer should be disbarred. What is so hard to understand. Either we value human life or we don't. Lets not say one life is more expendable

[packsaddle]

"When fightin' fires, yeh pour water on da fire, not da lake."

Dousing the fire is what I'm all about. How is it in your world, that the drunk driver is NOT the fire? If you think prosecuting a drunk driver who kills someone makes that drunk driver a victim, you need to think hard before you use the phrase 'rational thought'. The victims are being attacked by drunk drivers. And your response?....compassion towards drunk drivers.

[OldGreyEagle]

I am doing this as a separate post as I want to be sure it stands alone as it should

 

 

I do not understand when people think their experience trumps others. We do not know each other well enought to assume our own experience make us better qualified on a subject than anothers

 

If a person can tolerate the sheer indifference drunk drivers show to themselves and others, that is up to them. I don't have to share it or be betold I need to be as indifferent as they are(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

[FScouter]

That's the argument from authority fallacy. "I have experience in these matters, therefore the truth is ... and your opinion is invalid".

[Beavah]

I do not understand when people think their experience trumps others.

 

Yah, OGE, right back at yeh.

 

I submit to yeh that da false dichotomy you're settin' up is da same one we see all the time.

 

If you're not in favor of Zero Tolerance policies about "weapons" in schools then yeh must be indifferent to school violence.

If you're not in favor of banning all handguns then yeh must be "givin' a pass" to criminals.

If yeh express compassion for da young, troubled man with Aspergers who was lost then yeh must not care about da victims.

 

No difference between those and da claim that if you're not in favor of Zero Tolerance for DUI then yeh must be indifferent to the victims, or "giving a pass" to da worst perpetrators.

 

I don't believe that has to be the way of things. I think it's possible to have compassion for da victim and to be rational and thoughtful about public policy rather than espousing zero tolerance and mandatory sentencing. I reckon that da teachings of most major religious faiths suggest that our care and sadness for da victims of crimes does not require that we express no thoughtful compassion alongside da justice due da perpetrators. In fact, I believe our faith requires both da justice and da compassion.

 

Beavah

(This message has been edited by Beavah)