Giving up Freedom without a fight

[moosetracker]

You said it, Brewmeister.. Because you refuse to acknowledge the long lines and where those long lines were. You also can not understand the word "Backfired"..

 

You angered people who took their voting rights for granted until it was threatened. They probably would not have voted, definately would not have stood in those long lines tp vote except for their anger and determination to prove you could not take their rights away from them. You just don't understand how this play backfired on the Republicans.

 

Some of your Republican leaders have acknowledged the procedure, and claimed it was not a way for the Republicans to succeed in the future. They have stated that the answer is not to limit the voting of certain demographics but to find ways to change the messaging to something that will appeal to other groups and try to get a bigger tent. Otherwise the Republican tent is destined to get smaller and smaller..

 

 

I have mainly heard of Republican thinking to court Latinos, but not anything about the black vote, other poor people or the votes of youth. If you court Latinos but not the youth, the increase % of latino voting is due to thier increasing youth turning of age. So will they vote per their latino parents views, or with their peer group? They also may be in poverty or grew up in poverty even if they are moving into middle class through use of Government programs that gave them a helping hand. Will they turn their backs on programs they were glad were there to help them?

 

Then their is the other part of the party (like you) who will deny the obvious, think the way to win is to be more "pure" to their conservative values are looking for new ways to limit voting priviledge for groups that will not vote their way next time.

 

We democrats are having fun watching the internal war.

 

The young will keep getting voting rights by the hundreds of thousands each year, the old will continue to die off.. If you don't figure out how to get a bigger tent, you will continue to shrink..

[Brewmeister]

Well that's a typical "dialog," isn't it. I point out some facts and figures and the ol' Fox News/tea party/pick your cliche gets trotted out....

 

Anyhoo, I'd be all for internet voting, or some other method to make it easier to vote. I don't particularly like standing in line for hours either (maybe I'm being oppressed...is there a way to tell?)

 

However, such a time-saving measure would need to be coupled with a guarantee that the voter was entitled to vote (i.e., citizen voting in his/her correct district). You know, some sort of ID...or something...now that would be revolutionary.

 

 

[Brewmeister]

Hey Moose:

 

>>You angered people who took their voting rights for granted until it was threatened. They probably would not have voted, definately would not have stood in those long lines tp vote except for their anger and determination to prove you could not take their rights away from them.

 

Ummm...what the heck did I do? I wasn't standing on the corner with billy clubs...in fact I was at work on Super Tuesday.

 

And what makes you think I'm a Republican? You know what happens when you assume...

[moosetracker]

"You" as in your polictical party. If your not Republican, you are certainly blind & thick headed enough to fit in wonderfully with them.

 

I would love internet voting also. I more fear the ability to "cheat". I have yet to see an internet system that has not been cracked. I will not trust it for my banking at all.. I will though do ccard purchases, but I don't quite trust a feeling that I am playing russian roulette.

 

Calico what is the "motor voter laws" this is one I never heard of.. Also the 3 black panthers one with a stick of 4 years back became more comical this year when it was one (stickless) black panther guy standing quietly near a polling center.. Heaven Forbid!(This message has been edited by moosetracker)

[Brewmeister]

>>you are certainly blind & thick headed enough to fit in wonderfully with them.

 

Yeah, there we go. Let's not discuss it, let's just start tossing out insults. Thanks for the confirmation.

 

The "motor voter" law dates back to the Clinton Administration and was intended to give people easier access to voting. Surprised you didn't know that.

 

But since you can't make your points without name calling, I'm done with you.

[perdidochas]

Motor voter laws eliminated? That is the first I've heard of that. Please show evidence that they have been eliminated, Calico. Since it's a federal law, I'd be very surprised to hear that.

 

It has not yet been established the reason for the long lines in certain precincts in Florida. There are at least two explanations, and they are being investigated. One is that it could be Republican voter suppression. The other is that they are a result of local Democratic Party politicians incompetence. The second explanation is more plausible in Florida, considering that county level election officials are responsible for determining the number of voting machines needed. The county commissions do the funding for voting machines, not state officials.

[Basementdweller]

I never said anything about Black voter suppression.. Although there were accusations of that on the other side of town.

 

http://www.opednews.com/articles/Eleventh-Hour-GOP-Voter-Su-by-Ari-Berman-121104-190.html

 

http://www.vice.com/read/voter-suppression-its-happening-right-now-in-ohio

 

 

The second story is exactly what happened in my precinct. The line was 5 hours long. I couldn't tell you how many people just left out of frustration......Everyone that got out of line and walked past me, to told them you are letting THEM win by walking away.

 

I was ticked off when I got into the gym and saw the other district had 6 machines that weren't being used and we had 1000 people trying to use three machines....

[acco40]

Voter suppression is rampant. Any system that allows the elderly to cast an absentee ballot for no other reason than their age, holds an election during a work day - seems biased to me!

 

You'd think by now, I could vote on a weekend, on-line or over a period of 2-3 days. Make voter fraud a federal crime punishable by death by 49 cuts, allow only tax payers to vote (a step up from land owners) and you've got my support. And yes, I'm only half kidding.

 

P.S. At the last federal election (Obama/Romney) I was in and out of my polling place in less than six minutes. FWIW, I believe my county is approx. 58% Republican, 40% Democratic and about 2% Libertarian.(This message has been edited by acco40)

[skeptic]

Vote by mail, and it takes me no time at the polls at all, unless I simply drop the mail ballot on the day of the election, which you can do. Then it is simply hand it to a worker who checks it for security and makes sure it is in the box. No reason it cannot be done by most.

 

And we do not have long lines of those who choose to vote directly either. I am more concerned about the national news making projections before the polls even close on the West coast, as it can easily discourage people from voting and then affects local races and issues negatively.

 

No National results should be broadcast until ALL polls are closed. How hard would that be to implement? So Easterners might not know probable results until the next morning; that is certainly better than skewing Western voting.

[moosetracker]

My husband voted by mail this year. Seems quick and easy, but the thing I don't like about it, is they seem to wait until after the election to scan them in. So, like your vote really dosn't count, because the race is called without it.. Of course they seem to call the race before 20 to 30% of the votes that voted on election day are counted.. Except for Florida, where we had to wait until every single vote was tallied up. I guess they just didn't want to admit that Obama won there, so they weren't calling it until they had to.

 

So if you really want you vote to count you have to vote early, in person, on election day.. Better yet, the Nate Silver polling is becomeing accurate enough, why don't we just skip the actual voting and have his polling be the offical vote count?.. Must be Nate Silver though, definately not any of the Republican polls, they were way off the mark. (Although I think Nate's is a composite of all the polls, so they caused his to be a little off it's mark.)

[Basementdweller]

Naw, I will stand in line.

 

In ohio it is fairly routine for absentee ballots getting lost only to turn up weeks or months after the election. If that doesn't happen, then they get declared provisional and then disqualified. I think they said 30,000 provisional ballots were declared invalid last election.

 

I believe florida had the same issue during the last Bush election.

[Brewmeister]

Moose, I think you should seriously consider upping the fiber intake in your diet.

[moosetracker]

Thanks for your concern for my health Brewmeister. It is nice to know you wish me to live a long and healthy life..

 

[CalicoPenn]

Moose,

 

"Motor Voter" is the federal law that requires states to offer voter registration sign up when applying for drivers licenses and for social services (such as unemployment, food stamps, etc.) through a state agency.

 

Perdidochas,

 

Over the past couple of years, there have been proposals to eliminate the "motor voter" law as part of the effort to "get tough on voter fraud". The reporting on these don't end up on the front section - they tend to end up buried on page 20.

 

Note on the long lines. I find it ironic that for all the BS Chicago gets slagged with about voting, there are rarely any long lines to vote in any precinct. When there are long lines, it's either because people are trying to vote on their way to work or on their way home and are just naturally bunching up (sort of like everyone going to the store at the same time - the lines are long but if you were there just an hour before, the cashiers were staring at the ceiling bored to tears), or because of some equipment malfunction. Both Cook County and the City of Chicago Dept. of Elections (Cook County is the most populated county in the state - it includes Chicago but the City of Chicago runs their own elections separately from the County) are very quick to get replacement equipment in place. The other counties in Illinois do a pretty good job of allocating resources as well.

 

My suburban precinct had 8 machines available, including 2 that were touch screen. The neighboring precinct had 8 machines - things went very smoothly for the most part - the biggest hold up was the folks over 60 trying to use the touch screens - where it would take a computer savvy person 5 minutes or less to bang through the ballot (which also includes boatloads of judges), some of the older folks took 20 minutes or more, simply because they aren't as familiar with or trusting of technology.

 

If you're in a precinct that only has 3 machines while the neighboring precinct has 6, then whoever is in charge of the elections for your county needs to be fired and replaced by the voters, either for utter incompetance, or because they are trying to game the votes.

[moosetracker]

I guess I never noticed, don't remember any signs or information in the DMV but also I don't have to do Driver License renewal except every 5 years. Now, it looks like we can do Drivers License renewal on-line.. This is interesting, no new picture or eye test required anymore.

 

But, I go to my town clerks office at least once a year to do my car registrations, and when I do that, I would check with anything pertaining to my voting registration. My city clerks office is much, much more convient then my DMV..

 

Still I don't see a question of fear of voter fraud here. If you get it with your Drivers license and your drivers license is needed to make sure you are a valid voter, I don't see the issue.

 

When I lived in IL, I voted there around the Reagan era.. I remember machines that were intimidating, big machines with levers sort of like the machine the wizard of Oz used behind the curtain.. I was surprised to see a video of Obama voting on some little rinky dink machine.. But, I like NH old fashioned paper ballot with the "fill in the circle". We get linke 30 curtain booths to use to fill them out. Old people & young people can figure out the fill in the circle.. I think I took less then a minute to fill mine out. I guess the line would come sometimes at getting them scanned in, but I normally went during quiet times.(This message has been edited by moosetracker)