LDS Church Changes Stance on Gays

[fred8033]

Huzzar wrote: "Have two or more adults joined at the hip on every trip?"

 

Isn't that what we're trying to avoid happening at our scouting events? Sorry. Had to add some levity.

[Huzzar]

You can do what ever you want in an organization that you set the rules for, Moosetracker. You can't do it in the BSA and I applaud the BSA for their stance.

 

You and I both joined an organization that we knew barred gay adults from registering as leaders. The difference is you now want to inflict YOUR views on me. YOU are the aggressor in this dispute.

 

 

[moosetracker]

Actually I don't care what you and your troop do. You can exclude all you want..

 

I guess that means I can camp next to your troop with my 2 or 3 homosexual parents in attendance who are unregistered and have no background checks, and your fine with that too, since BSA will allow that.

 

But, quit the line about it is all about fear of homosexuals being pedophiles.. Because it is not. It is as I stated before "conservative Religious notions on sin, and the need to hold this sin as worse then any other sin.".. This is what I was discrediting.. I think I won my case, since you had to scramble and hide behind "The rules is the rules"..

 

And yes it is treating this sin as worse then any other sin, since BSA will allow Adulters, drunks, wife beaters and other sinners to register.

[Eagle732]

"BSA will allow Adulters, drunks, wife beaters and other sinners to register."

 

We weed them out at the unit level. Adult association is one of the methods of Scouting, it is the responsibility of the units and the COs to make sure the adult volunteers are positive role models.

[moosetracker]

Correction - you may "choose" to weed them out (or not), your choice.. But, with homosexuals you are not given that option.. There was a lady on here with a drunk and although she wanted him out, the unit was hurting for adult leadership, therefore he was shifted to different position by the CO and DE in an attempt to keep the unit going.. I think after the 3rd time he came to an event drunk she was able to pull him out without someone putting him into another position. But, if she didn't care either, the drunk would have the permission to stay on. There are many Adulterer in many troops, as long as they don't parade their mistresses in and out of troop meeting, they are allowed to have their private flings.. Then if there is a husband/wife blow-up you either ask them not to have war during scouting time.

 

Again I will restate.. "conservative Religious notions on sin, and the need to hold this sin as worse then any other sin."..

 

[Eagle732]

Actually it's not my choice. The COR and CC signs off on adult leaders.

 

What I have control over is what happens at meetings and outing. Some showing up drunk would be asked to leave, and not by driving themselves. If it happened again they would be gone.

 

What I don't have control over is BSA'a policy.

[moosetracker]

And if homosexuality was not held on a different plane of sin then all other sins it would also be the choice of your COR, CC or IH. But, it is held on a different plane.

 

You might personally have no control over BSA policy, but as collective groups we can change policy. So you have the right to hide behind the policy, and I and others like me who disagree with the policy can speak out against it and large cash donations have the right to dry up if they do not agree with the policy..

 

Now you may wish to speak out with others against other policies you disagree with, perhaps it is about putting an age limit on the use of little red wagons, or policies that have made it easier for a boy to make Eagle without backpacking, or really learning scout craft.. But, others who want to run Eagle mill troops by following policies that allow them to make it easy for their scouts to earn eagle by either them (or their parents who do things for them) doing little more then register for a few years where they can give them a position in title only, and have the scouts parents sign off their merit badges, and offer some whimpy cabin retreat camping trips, and considering a good Eagle project as being Mom, Dad and scout building a single bat house and hanging it up for a non-profit org. They can point out that the policies are the policies.. This group of people also have the right to group together and suggest that National make it even easier by changing any policies they think may still give them a little difficulty in getting that paper Eagle certificate, quickly, easily and painlessly.

[Eagle732]

In your last post when you say "you" do you mean me personally or you in general?

[moosetracker]

You in general. It was in answer to your comment of :

 

 

We weed them out at the unit level. Adult association is one of the methods of Scouting, it is the responsibility of the units and the COs to make sure the adult volunteers are positive role models.

 

 

I did not think your "We" was in "I" or even really specifically your unit, but in a General "we", you stated "Units" and "COs", not "my unit" or "My CO".

[Eagle732]

My "We" was in fact referring specifically to my unit. I do not know thus can not comment on what others do.

[fred8033]

I have a hard time with this. I don't personally care about a person's orientation and I'm definitely not going to spend time weeding them out. It does not affect me. But, it would definitely be a significant deciding factor if I was at the time choosing what troop to put my sons into.

[Eagle732]

fred, I was referring to "Adulters, drunks, wife beaters" that moose mentioned.

 

Drunks showing up at troop meetings or outings,

Wife beaters are obviously violent and are breaking the law,

Adulterers, well when it happened on a camping trip between two married adult who were unfortunately not married to each other (before I was a member),

then I don't have a problem with weeding those type of people out.

 

In my many years as an adult leader I have had one person removed for alcohol abuse and one charged criminally for destruction of troop property. I never lost a minutes sleep over either situation.

[howarthe]

The chartered organization representative and the committee chairman sign off on all adult leaders in all packs and troops; however, in my pack they do so without actually meeting the volunteers. Our pack is chartered by the Kiwanis. I have worked in packs charted by the LDS church. In those packs, the chartered organization representative actually asks people to volunteer, so they are hand-picked from the congregation, (usually a parent of one of the scouts). The church preferred to have women serve as den leaders for wolves and bears and to have men serve as Webelos den leaders and Cubmasters. They didn't need the BSA to create a policy to enforce this preference on other packs throughout the country. I believe they hate the idea that their sons might meet gay scouts or scouters at jamborees. But they also hate camping over a Saturday night, so they end up having their own camporees anyway. The whole thing seems to me like it never should have been an issue. It was a solution looking for a problem from the very beginning, and I HOPE it can just go away.

[howarthe]

Another quote from the new website (Mormons and Gays.org)

 

"Jim If you have not charity you are nothing, so I think we cant profess to be believers or disciples of Jesus Christ if we dont love all people. Regardless of what their lifestyle may be that shouldnt change the way we feel nor our response to them."

[howarthe]

Another quote from the new LDS website (Mormons and Gays.org)

 

"Mike One of the most important things we can learn while were here upon on this earth is how to love those who may think differently than us, may have different ideas than us, who may have different beliefs than us. Thats what it means to be Christ-like. Its one of the most important things we have to learn in order for us to return and live with our Heavenly Father again. Well, we only learn that by being around people who are different than us. We wont learn what God would have us learn by simply learning how to love those people that we sit in Sunday school class with. Well learn it by loving those who are not in Sunday school class."