Chief exec of UK Scout Association: Time for a Promise that atheists can keep

[Peregrinator]

Peregrinator, are Buddhist scouts liars?

 

That's a good question. My understanding is that some Buddhists believe in God, while others don't. So I guess it would depend on whether one believes in God or not.

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

No, you believe in cussing with impunity. So do many nominally religious that cuss at atheists or anyone else whose lives have been imposed upon because of their rantings.

 

I use words that I think are appropriate; if you don't, that's your problem.

 

It might be chalked up as antipathy, but really it's the plain old: "I got mine. I don't care if something is important to them." -- with a little profanity ordered up in a wasted attempt to elevate yourself above whatever wreckage lies around us.

 

"why the hell don't you ask THEM" is just to point out that you are talking to the wrong party.

 

... set her straight. ... So have you? Or is that "not your problem"?

 

It's nice that you care. Well I guess I won't know if my reminding her of her 1st amendment rights will have helped until it's time for next year's graduation festivities.

 

You still aren't making sense. Why won't you know until next year? Even if the date for that baccalaureate service has passed (I don't know, you're hardly being clear), it's quite possible NOW to determine 1) where she got the mistaken idea in the first place, and 2) if it's established that her position as a public school teacher doesn't bar her from working on a baccalaureate service with a church.

 

Now, since your details about this whole thing are so vague and unhelpful, your original statement of "why do my kids' teachers not want to be known for organizing the baccalaureate service?" could mean that your kids' teachers can't solicit their students to attend a baccalaureate service, which is true, just as they can't solicit their students to attend their church. But there's no way for me to tell from what you write. Maybe some cussing would clear things up.

[Pint]

"Wouldn't an atheist making a promise of duty to God be lying?"

Peregrinator, are Buddhist scouts liars?

 

 

Budhist Scouts have this option...

 

 

"On my Honour,

I promise that I will do my best,

to do my duty to my Dharma and to the Queen

to help other people,

and to keep the Scout law"

 

Muslim this one:

 

In the name of Allah, the Most Beneficent the Most

Merciful, I Promise that i will do my best,

to do my duty to Allah, and to the Queen

to help other people and to keep the Scout law

 

and the standard version:

 

On my honour, i promise that I will do my best,

to do my duty to God and to the Queen,

to help other people and to keep the Scout law.

 

 

And the Scout law:

A Scout is to be trusted.

A Scout is loyal.

A Scout is friendly and considerate.

A Scout belongs to the world-wide family of Scouts.

A Scout has courage in all difficulties.

A Scout makes good use of time and is careful of possessions and property.

A Scout has self-respect and respect for others.

 

 

[Cambridgeskip]

Last night was the first scout night since this news story broke. We had an easy going creative night and it gave me a chance to spend some time talking to some of the scouts. I had 4 working with me, a Christian, a Budhist, an Atheist and one who's just not sure. Getting their point of view on this was really quite refreshing.

 

In short, none of them could understand what the fuss was about. They were actually a bit surprised to learn that religion was any problem in terms of joining anything. They are used to people having different beliefs and are all quite able to discuss theirs without being nasty to each other.

 

Some times I think scouters could learn an awful lot from the scouts themselves.

[fred8033]

Cambridgeskip wrote: "In short, none of them could understand what the fuss was about. They were actually a bit surprised to learn that religion was any problem in terms of joining anything. They are used to people having different beliefs and are all quite able to discuss theirs without being nasty to each other. "

 

That's what I'd expect. The push to remove reverent and God from scouting is not a scout based push. Scouts deal with these situations all the time. It's a political push. I find that interesting.

[Adam S]

Not one person has said anything about the boys being excluded. All this discussion is about what BP said 100 years ago with his words as dogma, but not his sentiment. Scouting is a movement, it changes over time. BP changed over time, from a decorated war veteran to someone who advocated for peace after the horrors of a World War.

 

If he were alive today, would he rather boys who could benefit from the program be excluded or would he want them as scouts?

 

What someone else believes or does not believe, should not scare you. What matters is that they are a good person, and I have met a fair number of good athiests and evil faithful. More important, the BSA *MAKES* good people, shouldn't we encourage every boy to join?

 

 

 

[Eagledad]

>>If he were alive today, would he rather boys who could benefit from the program be excluded or would he want them as scouts?

[Cambridgeskip]

Fred, I think you've missed the point.

 

No one is proposing removing God from the programme. We're talking about an additional version of the Promise, not a replacement.

 

This is not a political issue, no one has forced this on TSA. TSA has chosen to go this way to reflect its membership and the society in which they live.

 

As you point out, the scouts themselves deal with this perfectly well day in day out without excluding anyone and they just see the addition of an additional version the Promise as perfectly normal.