Plowboy Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 Two years ago we started using the Perfect Attendance award. We defined the criteria and gave out the bars at the end of the program year at our annual camp out. Since all of our second year Webelos are crossing over soon, we decided to credit them with their pin for this year since their program year is ending in Feb and not May. The troops don't use the attendance award, so no chance of them getting double counted in May with a troop. Our den leaders of the outgoing boys want to take this a step further and award bars for years prior to us using the award as a pack. They have most of their attendance records, apparently, but not all. Two of the boys are the den leaders boys, so there's really no question that they were there for the required number of meetings. I know that between my two boys they have only one missed den meeting between them in three years because one of them was sick once. I'm struggling with retroactively awarding two years of perfect attendance for an award that we weren't using in those years and for one that has no official BSA criteria. Thus, the criteria that we defined didn't even exist in those years that are now wanted to be awarded. On the other hand, they would have met the criteria if it had existed. I think it is great that these guys had such dedication to the program no matter if dad was a den leader or not. I can appreciate the desire for recognition as they leave us. It makes a great example for our other boys. Just looking for opinions on this. Our final decision was to award the past bars and to make sure that our first year Webelos are taken care of in the same way. The program started with our current Bears, TWB dens aren't affected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eamonn Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 "On the other hand, they would have met the criteria if it had existed." And the dog would have caught the rabbit if he hadn't stopped for a pee! I don't really think any of this really matters. But.. Without wishing to be unkind or in any way harsh. I tend to think that you might have done these Lads a disservice. Because it wasn't around at the time. There is no way they could or might have earned this award. Handing out unearned awards is never a good thing. It makes the award meaningless and allows these Lads to fall into the frame of mind that they don't have to do anything to receive an award. Here in the forum a fair number of members get a little hot under the collar about Troops that short change their youth members by allowing them to wear badges and awards that they really aren't entitled to wear. While awarding a Perfect Attendance award that couldn't possibly be earned (Because it wasn't there.) Is not the end of the world. It does allow these Scouts to think that everything will just be given to them. I personally fail to see what harm might have been done if these Lads had not received the award? Ea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basementdweller Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 Eamon is right. How do you earn an award that didn't exist at the time.???? Ya don't. Time for DL and CM to do the right thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papadaddy Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 As a compromise...if you have good records, just issue them a certificate of attendance (made up for free on the computer) with the inclusive dates listed. THen, if the parents want the doo-dads for the uniforms, they can go to the scout shop and buy them (bars for prior years). Since this was an award earned in Cubs, it won't be transferable to their BS uniform anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blw2 Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 agreed BUT on the other hand... if they receive a bar for one year of perfect attendance, that would be what they have to hang on the wall with all of their other Cub Scout awards and acheivements.... but it would seem silly (to me anyway) to be proud of a one year perfect attendance, knowing that I had 4 years or whatever.... Makes that one year award equally meaningless, IMO. I have been struggling with this same issue. Have had bigger fish to fry and so I haven't had a chance to bring it up to our committee yet.... Our pack does not currently use the attendance award or service stars. My son had almost perfect attendance for his Tiger year to all meetings, camps, and activities excpt one "excused" miss from a den meeting. i asked the den leader to look into it last year for the last pack meeting, but it fell through the cracks. Ditto this year on his attendance, almost but one sick miss for a den meeting and one miss on a camp that I couldn't make. Part of me wants to suggest some critera of maybe all den meetings, all pack meetings, and maybe some percentage of camps and activities, with an allowance for "excused" (by prior call that he won't be making it because .... but if we did that, as I mentioned above, it would almost be meaningless unless we could make it apply for each boy going back to their start with the pack. I'm not sure if the den leaders ahve good enough attendance records for that. I think I might be the only one taking attendance. At this point, I think I'm going to start our den with the service stars, but maybe I'll skip the attendance pin unless soemone else brings it up. The boys don't know about it and honestly I'm not so sure that they care..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plowboy Posted January 28, 2013 Author Share Posted January 28, 2013 I don't know how much it matters to the discussion but since someone brought up the DL and CM doing the right thing, in this case the CM, DL, and Scoutparent are all the same person. I'm the CC. Also, the award DID exist within the BSA awards for Cub Scouts. What makes attendance different is that the unit defines the criteria. Since we didn't define it until 2011, it is odd for me to award it for 2010 and 2009. That said, if you applied the criteria retroactively, the boys would have earned it. I wasn't in favor of the retroactive awards, but have since yielded. FYI, our criteria to earn is missing no more than two den meetings and one pack meeting/event. Based on research, it seemed pretty consistant with what other packs are doing. We always allow den leaders to make exceptions based on their judgement. So far, we've had no abuse of the exception "clause". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plowboy Posted January 28, 2013 Author Share Posted January 28, 2013 bls2 wrote: BUT on the other hand... if they receive a bar for one year of perfect attendance, that would be what they have to hang on the wall with all of their other Cub Scout awards and acheivements.... but it would seem silly (to me anyway) to be proud of a one year perfect attendance, knowing that I had 4 years or whatever.... Makes that one year award equally meaningless, IMO. ------------------------------------------------------------------- This is right in line with how we were trying to reconcile this. Is it a meaningless award or is it meaningful. We could slice it both ways in both directions. In the end, we err on the side of the boy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsdad Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 The award didn't exist in your pack so they are couldn't have earned. To blw2: if your son's absences qualify for him the award he should get it. If not, it shouldn't be tweaked to fit. An excused absence is still an absence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twocubdad Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 The award has been around for years, the pack just chose not to award it. The details of how the pack tracks it doesn't really matter. As part of it's descretionary criteria, I assume the pack could have included retroactive attendance if it chose to do so. Regardless, I wouldn't die on this hill. On the other hand, I think it's a little distasteful for the dad to be out mining bling for his son. Does the kid really have to have every little doodad? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basementdweller Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 Twocubs please provide a link to the national site that lists a perfect attendance award. In my searches it is a local pack award. This is about the parents not the boys. They could care less and will forget about it the second they fire up the playstation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meschen Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 Although I agree that you can not earn an award that wasn't existence, as this is a Pack defined award I personally would file this one under "battles not worth fighting" and give them their pin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSScout Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 Back when I drove a bus for a living, I had many good, accident free years. The transit agency did not have an award for such things, but alot of us drivers thought that it would be a nice touch to recognize such a thing. Our union (such as it was), made the suggestion and after a while, we had the award: a special key chain, a certificate and three extra leave days. When I mentioned to my supervisor that I probably qualified for it last year, she said "yes , but last year we didn't have such an award. This year we do, but how 'bout that tree limb you clipped last month?" Award this years awards this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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