Scout leader opn 'Survivor?"

[red feather]

Interesting what the simple wearing of the scout uniform does to the mind set of the people who see it. Something to think about.

 

Lil did as well in her situation as was possible. Picture me giving her a scout salute.

 

Her choice of the person to join her in the final two speaks highly of her and the values that she has. The 900,000 dollar lesson is not for her but a lesson for all scouts and scouters.

 

I hope that if in a similar situation I would have the stength to do the same thing.

 

yis

[Adrianvs]

"I never held anything against Lil because she was after all playing a game by its rules and not living in her everyday life."

 

I think this is a bit of a cop-out. There is no indication that Survior contestants are encouraged to lie, cheat, and steal. They choose to because they can get away with it. Yes, it may be expected, but it isn't the rule of the game. It is too easy to say, "It's not her real life; it's just for this game." It isn't hard to extend that to, "It isn't her real life, it's just business transactions. Everyone expects opportunists. It's part of the game." "It isn't his real life; it's just what he chooses to do on Saturday nights."

 

Lying and stealing may be a successful strategy. As Rupert said, "We're supposed to be pirates!" If he really wanted to play that game, he would have remembered that ol' Blackbeard's head ended up suspended from a wall. I doubt the producers would have been amused if the other tribe showed up to the next immunity with his head on a stick. We are always willing to suspend SOME of our morals FOR THE MOMENT, always supposing that the morals we choose to keep will be kept by everyone else. Contestants are forbidden to physically attack one another or plan to share the money. There are a lot of other legal strategies to get rid of fellow contestants that aren't as cute as lying to someone.

 

Arrgh, matey.

[SR540Beaver]

A few posts back, I spoke in favor of Lil after she lost the contest. I've had more time to reflect and have some new thoughts. I still think she did well under the circumstances and learned some lessons she can impart to her Scouts. That being said, I went to the CBS website and viewed her audition video. In it she was in her Scout uniform and talked extensively about her Troop. She sold herself to the show as a Scout and chose to wear her Scout uniform for the show. She admitted in the final tribal council and at their reunion that wearing the uniform had been a liability because they held her to a different standard. That is true, they did and it was not fair. BUT, I'm now convinced she originally did it as part of her strategy for the game. She wanted them to recognize her as a leader and to let them know of her outdoor skills. In the end, it backfired on her.

[Fuzzy Bear]

Lilly looked good in her unifrom as the others tore at the fabric of her trustworthiness. She almost won honestly or lost dishonestly, I'm not sure which.

 

I knew a Scout leader that would either not wear his Scout uniform when he went to meetings or wear an overcoat with his uniform. He liked to stop off and belt down one or two on the way home. It makes it easier to answer questions when you look the part.

 

It's hard living a thinnly disguised double life. I wouldn't recommend it to anyone. I guess Lilly would have won if she had taken her uniform off and tried coconuts and leaves instead. FB

 

 

 

[LauraT7]

Hmmm - someone said something earlier about how Lill didn't 'dissasociate' hersoef from being a scouter or was 'hypocritical' of her scouting beliefs....

 

Excuse me if i am misquoting, but I think that was the general idea, anyway....

 

AlthoughI have been a Boy Scout leader (and prior to that a cub leader) for only a relatively few years - I was RAISED in scouting. Girl Scouts, and in an area that did alot of camping and had a program much like Boy Scouts, apparently. 'Scouting' is an indelible part of my SOUL. Good or bad, I can't really separate some of the beliefs and habits Scouting has taught me, from ME.

 

I started passing these beliefs and habits on to my son - not JUST through camping & outdoor education, but that was a big part of his 'lessons' from the time he was a toddler. He is also so indelibly a 'Scout' that it would be difficult to separate his own beliefs and habits from those of scouting.

 

However, that does not mean that either of us always live up to the Goal of the Oath and Law. We are, after all, human.

 

the Oath says, "On my honor, I will DO MY BEST..." to me, that means I will try my best to live up to the standards, and that if I (or any of the boys) stumble and fail, that we will continue to 'do our best' and try again.

 

How could Lill, being the kind of scouter and person that she is, separate herself from scouting in order to play this game? How could YOU do it?

 

With the temptation of winning that kind of money, going thru that extreme kind of situation, hardship and difficulty, would YOU really have been able to ALWAYS live by the Scout Law?

 

she didn't lie to hurt people, she didn't steal, she had no plans to sabatage those left behind if/when she was voted off....

When dealing with people who admitedly have NO scruples at all, and knowing that this IS a GAME and that no one is going to be permanently harmed or hurt, would you have been able to take the 'high road' and be scouting's shining example and loose early? or would you also be tempted to 'bend' your high values a little for the game?

 

Remember, she has kids in college to pay for, too!

 

if it were YOU - what would YOU have done? Could/would YOU deny that scouting is a huge part of your life in order to play the game? or would you live your Scouting life and end up bending like Lilly did?

 

laura

[Rooster7]

How could Lill, being the kind of scouter and person that she is, separate herself from scouting in order to play this game? How could YOU do it?

 

By appearances, she used her scouting background and the uniform to gain peoples trust. It seemed to me, she was having her cake and eating it too. I dont mind her playing the game like everyone else. I dont mind her publicly embracing Scouting. My problem was or is - she wanted to do both. She played the game like everyone else. Then, at the end of the show, she tried to disassociate herself with Scouting noting that she happened to be wearing the uniform when they were marooned. Thats all fine and well. However, in those early days of the show (or even much later), I never heard her say Hey, I know Im wearing this uniform, but I intend to play the game like everyone else or anything close to it. In fact, while I dont have the show on tape, I think she made several references to her Scouting background to gain peoples trust.

 

With the temptation of winning that kind of money, going thru that extreme kind of situation, hardship and difficulty, would YOU really have been able to ALWAYS live by the Scout Law?

 

No, I cant say what I would have done. I may well have done exactly as she did. However, if so, I think I would have been wrong for doing it.

 

she didn't lie to hurt people, she didn't steal, she had no plans to sabatage those left behind if/when she was voted off.... When dealing with people who admitedly have NO scruples at all, and knowing that this IS a GAME and that no one is going to be permanently harmed or hurt, would you have been able to take the 'high road' and be scouting's shining example and loose early? or would you also be tempted to 'bend' your high values a little for the game?

 

First, there were only one or two players who fit that description of NO scruples at all. So, it wasnt like she was the only one trying to remain honorable. Second, from my view, Lill wasnt any more virtuous than most people that played the game. That was the issue. She staked claim to Scouting, but played the game like everyone else.

 

Remember, she has kids in college to pay for, too!

 

Yes, I can relate I have two in college. But, I still say While Lill played the game well, I didnt see anything about her behavior on the show that as Scouters we can proudly point to her and say, Well, look what she did. She played the game pretty much like anyone else. The only difference is, I think she exploited her Scouting background and uniform to gain the trust of others. She may not have conscientiously chosen her uniform to wear (had she known they were going to be marooned), but I didnt see her protect the reputation of the BSA or Scouting. She could have accomplished that end by doing one of two things 1) by simply making a quick statement early in the game that she intends to play the game like everyone else, or 2) by embracing Scoutings values.

 

if it were YOU - what would YOU have done?

 

I like to think I would have done one of the two things stated above.

 

Could/would YOU deny that scouting is a huge part of your life in order to play the game? or would you live your Scouting life and end up bending like Lilly did?

 

If Lill really lived the Scouting life, she would not have went as far as she did. Thats the point. Up until the last show or two, she wanted people to believe that the two were inseparable. Yet, she could and did separate them she managed to lie and deceive others when it was advantageous to do so.

 

Having said all of the above, I want to point out what I already conceded several posts ago. The producers of the show may have edited some of Lills better moments out. That is to say, perhaps she did make a quick disclaimer early in the show, but the producers chose not to show it. If so, then I think Lill was done a great injustice. I would have respected her much more had I heard such a disclaimer. If she never made such a disclaimer, then I think she deserved to be scolded by her island mates, just as she was.

 

Its one thing to be deceptive or even to lie when playing a game show. Its quite another to present yourself as one person and then to be another. Just like Johnny Fair Play pretended to be a grieving grandson, Lill pretended to be the Scoutmaster. At least Sandra was consistent. She was the person she was.

 

[dsteele]

I have been accused, and rightly so, of being too trusting of people. I take them at face value until they prove otherwise.

 

I campioned Lil several times in this thread. I watched her lose the game and was proud of who she chose as her remaining survivor.

 

However, after she came in #2, I happened to look at the Survivor web site. Until I looked at her audition tape I thought she was suprised to be marooned -- the show's premise was that the people were told to dress as if for a press conference the way they wanted the world to see them. How cool that Lil chose to wear her uniform, and unfortunate that she be marooned in it.

 

Nah. She's wearing the uniform in her audition tape. She begins the tape with the Scout Oath and Law.

 

Lost a bit of respect when I saw that (read that sentence with the dry growl it is meant to be read with.)

 

DS

[matuawarrior]

Unfortunately for us here, we get the show a week late on cable TV. So it was tempting to see what others wrote in regards to Lill on the show but I tried hard not to open this thread until after the show "Aired" here on Sunday.

 

Many of my Scouts and Venturers watched the show from the beginning because there was a Scoutmaster participating. I, myself caught a couple of shows, especially the last two.

 

Like any show the producers and editing staff will only show what will Sell. So we watched what they wanted us to see.

 

As per Lill and the Scout Uniform and Ideals, I'll have to say she should have decided wisely who she was going to be for the show. She chose to be a Scoutmaster and the producers and editors took advantage of that. At mid-stream, she changed tactics and played the game differently. She compromised her integrity.

 

From the first season, Survivor was all about compromising your values to win the prize. With $1 million dollars at stake, Johnny Fairplay convinced us for a moment that his Grandmother was dead. If that doesn't tell you how far people will go to win then I don't know what will.

 

The point is that when we choose to represent our Scouting Lifestyle in any Venture. People will hold us to that standard. They'll be harder on us when we make a mistake or at fault, than others who supposedly don't know any better.

 

So the lesson was learned and we must pass this on to our scouts of what to and not to do.

 

If Scouters want to participate in a Reality TV game, I would suggest the "Amazing Race" or "Extreme Challenge". At least on those games, it's all based on skill.

 

Merry Christmas,

Matua