Scout leader opn 'Survivor?"

[LauraT7]

Lill ended up in the top two -

 

i missed the first hour, where they voted Dana off. Anybody know WHY? I felt sure the women were going to vote John off - unless, did he win the 2nd to last immunity?

 

Lill won the last immunity challenge, and got to pick who went to the end with her.

 

the immunity challenge itself was cool - because for once, she clearly had an advantage and she KNEW it. The challenge was to squat on a small float in the ocean using only hands and feet for balance. If knees or butt hit the surface -you were out. Lill had taken aerobics classes, and her ankles and knees were used to the necessary position. For hours, John BEGGED her to make a 'deal' with him - I think he knew that he was in trouble the whole time. Sandy dropped right away, but Jon held on - really having alot of trouble, pain and numbness.

 

she did have to 'play the game' and be deceitful to get to that point, and in the end - I think her uniform, her age, & her attempts to be 'kind' hurt her.

 

For one thing - Everyone, including us, held her to a higher standard because she was wearing that uniform. Many of the other contestants expressed an opinion that it was OK for THEMSELVES -an electrician, a lawyer, or anyone else to lie, manipulate and cheat - but not ok for a Scout or scouter to behave the same way - EVEN IN A NON SCOUT SETTING. I also got the impression that many were against her for the simple reason that she WAS in scouting - kind of a reverse snobbishness. It was as if they felt she was lording her scouting knowledge and experience over them, (which I don't feel she did) and instead, they took pleasure in putting her down simply because she was a scouter. She was definately the underdog.

 

Much like what some of our kids face in dealing with peers at school - something to keep in mind.

 

Her age hurt her, NOT because any less physically capable than some - she admitted things were tough and she was worn out - but many didn't work as hard as she did and complained more. No her age hurt her because of a generational gap. This 'game' had a preponderance of young people - under 30 yrs old, especially toward the end. and many people can't relate to someone more than a decade of difference in ages. I've seen this in all kinds of social groups myself - work, church, etc. 20 & 30 somethings, mostly - just have a real hard time truly making friends and socializing with other adults in their 40's 50's and older. They can treat them as alternate parents and grandparents - but NOT as peers.

 

Lill related better to 'some' of the younger players better than they did to her. But her age and uniform distanced her from the young players who were more self-absorbed & played politics more.

 

lastly, in the end, Lill choose her final alliance because if LILL didn't win, she felt Sandy, a young mom Lill could relate to - deserved the money more than some wild, beer drinking, partying overgrown teenager that was so foreign to Lill. of course, nobody like John anyway!

 

it was interesting to note, that AFTER the votes were tallied, and Sandy won - they asked the 'jury', "if it were a choice between Lill and John, which would they have chosen?" and had the choice been between Lill and John - Lilly would have won. a $900,000 choice!

 

laura

 

____________

 

anyway -

[Bob White]

"I look at Lil and see a lady whos doing fairly well in a competition that focuses on physical endurance, some degree of wit, but most importantly the ability to deceive others. With this last trait in mind, I dont think the game is really well-suited for someone who is striving to mentor exemplary behavior for youths"

 

How is this for irony. If you take Rooster's comment, and change the gender to male, he has described Baden-Powell. Not only that but, he has described the specific traits and the situation that brought B-P to world notoriety and made him a hero to millions of boys world wide, allowing him to start the scouting program.

 

It was his physical and mental abilities that made him the hero at Mafeking, and allowed him to win dispite overwhelming odds.

So in retrospect Lil is following the example of Baden-Powell quite well.

 

Something to think about.(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[Hunt]

I watched only the last episode, and found it to be fascinating. Lill admitted that she had decided to play the game on its own terms, which meant that she lied--like everybody else did. And yet, when it came time to vote, the other contestants held her to a higher standard than themselves because she was a Scouter. The host seemed amazed by this, and pressed them about it. They really seemed to see her as representing the Boy Scouts, and criticized her for not representing its ideals all that well.

As for Lill, I admired a couple of things. First, she admitted that she didn't represent the ideals of Scouting well. Second, when it came time to choose who would go with her to the final vote, she clearly did not choose the strategy most likely to bring her personal victory. Instead, she chose the person she thought was more deserving--something I doubt any of the other competitors would have done. On the whole, I think she probably helped the image of Scouting more than she hurt it--it could have been so much worse.

[Rooster7]

Lill was held to a higher standard because of the way she presented herself in the first three weeks. She never disassociated herself from the ideas of Scouting until it became apparent to everyone else that she was being hypocritical. In fact, she used the uniform and her status as a Scouter to gain trust. You can't have it both ways. Her speech at the end was great - but it was 39 days too late. She should have given it on day one.

[Bob White]

Remember Rooster, you have no idea what all was said by anyone on day-one or any other day. You only know what the producers and editors chose to show you, in the order they chose to show it.

 

Lesson one of TV..Reality shows are not real. Images and audio clips are manipulated for dramatic effect for the benefit of who? Lil? The other contestants? The viewers? No, for the interest of the producers and advertisers. You see what they want you to see. That is not good grouds for determining who contestants are or what they should have done.

 

BW

 

 

[Rooster7]

Bob White,

 

I have to say - Point taken!

 

She may well have made several disclaimers concerning her status as a Scouter, which the producers chose not to show us. If that was the case, I think she did well. If not, then I believe she deserved the criticism.

 

Regardless, I must agree - TV producers are master manipulators - so we may never really know.

 

[SMT376Richmond KY]

I'm interested in what National has to say concerning LIL's admission that she lied and wasn't trustworthy. Her statement during the show last night clearly led me to the impression (and a message to her Scouts)that it's ok to live the Scout oath and law but only when in a Scouting environment.

 

My Boy Scout Handbook list for the Scout rank "Understand and agree to live by the Scout Oath or Promise, Law, motto and slogan and the Outdoor Code."

 

Several of the higher ranks list as requirements to "Demostrate Scout spirit by living the Scoat Oath (promise) and Scout Law in your everyday life."

 

It would be interesting to know how she will handle these in upcoming SM conferences with the Boys in her Troop. Now that they know the standard she has set.

[Rooster7]

SMT376Richmond KY,

 

Interesting points. I guess it depends on how much emphasis one chooses to place on the word - "reality" as opposed to those other words - "game show". Was Lill participating in everyday life (i.e., reality) or was it merely a game show, whereas the rules of the game are not the same rules one would follow in everyday life? I'm not condoning lying - but is it truly lying when all of the participates know that deception is an intricate part of the game?

 

To my shame, I watch and enjoy this show. I say to my shame, because I think there is a danger here in that many folks may think, the end justifies the means. While I dont blame Lill, she could have sent a powerful message to viewers by forfeiting her chances to win by remaining faithful to her Scouting values.

 

[Hunt]

She did forfeit her chance to win at the very end by choosing the more worthy person to go with her at the end. I wish she had made it more explicit that she was doing it out of principle.

[Twocubdad]

Never watched a minute of any of the Survivor shows, so I don't really know the specifics of how the game is played. But if lying, cheating and stealing are part of the game, is it really lying, cheating and stealing? We would never tolerate physical violence among our scouts, but if they are playing football, that's just part of the game. Granted, tackle football isn't a Scout activity, but we don't consider our boys who play to be "unscout-like" when they make a great tackle.

 

Given the circumstances of how she ended up wearing her uniform for the entire show, I can only imagine that she would have been uncomfortable being forced "represent" the BSA in this situation.

 

But it could have been worse. If she were like the rest of the scumbags on the show, she would have finished the series topless.

[SR540Beaver]

Being a Christian and a Scouter, I understand being held to a higher standard and sometimes it is frustrating and hurts. I never held anything against Lil because she was after all playing a game by its rules and not living in her everyday life. Even if she had been, does each of your Scouts live the Oath and Law in every circumstance every single day? Is that what we expect of them? You can do 999 things right, but 1 lapse in judgement puts a black mark next to your name for Scout Spirit? Or do we expect them to "do their best"? I think that in the end, Lil made a choice to "do the right thing" and it cost her the game. As soon as she decided to take Sandra to the final two with her, I told my wife that she had lost the game. I was proud of her for doing the right thing as a Scout should, but disappointed that the other contestants could not appreciate and reward her actions. I think she can hold her head high as a Scout Master and will be able to better understand the trials and tribulations her Scouts go thru every day. It was a $900,000 lesson for her. Who thinks she will counsel her Scouts to "do what you have to do to look out for number one" like Sandra or to do the right thing and think of others first at their own expense? My son could be in her troop anytime.

[Marty_Doyle]

I too was intrigued by the recap/reunion at the end of the show, where two other contestants (a lawyer and electrician) felt it was okay for them to be dishonest and not trustworthy (which could explain their fees) but not for Lill.

She was held to a higher standard by the other players, because she was weraing her Scoutmaster uniform.

Maybe we should be asking some of these questions of Burton, another contestant who didn't last as long, was as duplicitous as any other contestant, and is supposedly an Eagle Scout.

[dsteele]

I told my wife as well, that Lil had lost the game when she selected Sandra.

 

That doesn't mean I'm not proud of Lil. Quite the contrary. I am proud of her. She played well.

 

I'm also proud that she didn't really seem to care about the money.

 

DS

[ManyIrons]

If you need any further evidence that Lil was held to a higher standard look no further than Rupert, who according to the show's website works as a "Troubled Teen Mentor".

 

His association with youth didn't stop him from stealing the other tribe's shoes on the very first episode -- and no one questioned how he could reconcile his conduct in the game with his job as a role model. Perhaps that was edited out since Rupert was so popular.

 

[eagle90]

I admit I have been addicted to Survivor from the beginning, and thought this was one of the more entertaining editions. While I wasn't exactly pulling for Lill to win, I think she did an admirable job for her age and gender against the younger, stronger contestants. I do have one question though - She was out there for 39 days and her uniform still looked pretty darn good. I go out for a 3 day weekend campout, and most times my uniform comes home trashed. HOW COME??