Who carries a firearm on Scout Outings???

[htusa31]

OK, someone asked for a new thread and I had a hunch that someone had beat it to death before. I was right.

So...in the opinion of the gun nuts out there, what is the best concealed carry firearm for BSA outings?

I have no brand loyalty. Whatever you get, learn to operate it efficiently, and train with it regularly.

Please please carry it concealed, or get the permit to do so.

The articles/videos below show what can happen when the adrenaline gets to flowing.

 

Part 1

http://www.wfaa.com/story/news/2016/01/11/ready-aim-truth-how-prepared-good-guys-protect-themselves-and-others-part-1/78655818/

 

Part 2

http://www.wfaa.com/story/news/local/investigates/2016/01/12/ready-aim-truth-good-guys-vs-bad-guys-part-2/78718008/

 

 

I can not confirm nor deny that I carry 100% of the time, or if I have pants on a gun is tucked in them...

Still....

the biggest and best thing you can teach anyone about safety is.....

SITUTATIONAL AWARENESS

I can say with 100% certainty that having great situational awareness has prevented more crime than a gun. Still its not a bad idea to have that tool just in case something happens outside the awareness.

Edited January 19, 2016 by htusa31

[JoeBob]

What I don't understand is the attitude that carrying concealed is bad.

If the weapon is never needed, good.  You'll never know it was there.

If the weapon is needed, and it's not there...

[Stosh]

What I don't understand is the attitude that carrying concealed is bad.

If the weapon is never needed, good.  You'll never know it was there.

If the weapon is needed, and it's not there...

Be prepared to do my duty to God and Country and help other people at all times.

 

That just might entail more than first aid after the fact.

[KenD500]

I haven't read through the entire thread.  Has anyone mentioned the Guide to Safe Scouting's restriction on firearms?

 

"Except for law enforcement officers required to carry firearms within their jurisdiction, firearms shall not be brought on camping, hiking, backpacking, or other Scouting activities except those specifically planned for target shooting under the supervision of a currently certified BSA national shooting sports director or National Rifle Association firearms instructor."

[Krampus]

I haven't read through the entire thread.  Has anyone mentioned the Guide to Safe Scouting's restriction on firearms?

 

"Except for law enforcement officers required to carry firearms within their jurisdiction, firearms shall not be brought on camping, hiking, backpacking, or other Scouting activities except those specifically planned for target shooting under the supervision of a currently certified BSA national shooting sports director or National Rifle Association firearms instructor."

 

In another thread it was mentioned. The national statute that allows carrying for off duty was also brought up. The question raised was whether or not that federal statute allowed officers to carry on other scout events or superseded state law.

[DuctTape]

Federal law "allowing" isn't the same as "required". The GTSS has an exception for those who are "required".

[cyclops]

In another thread it was mentioned. The national statute that allows carrying for off duty was also brought up. The question raised was whether or not that federal statute allowed officers to carry on other scout events or superseded state law.

It was mentioned earlier in this thread too.

[cyclops]

"Gun nuts"? As opposed to the "Gun Restriction Nuts"?

Why would I ask someone who wants to restrict guns for their opinion on what is the best concealed carry firearm for Scouting events?

[bradne]

I find this thread extremely interesting.  The motto of the Boy Scouts is "Be Prepared", however there is an amazing anti-prepared attitude being displayed by many people in this thread simply because they do not understand that many of us do not live where they do.

 

First, I am a LEO.  While it is not required that I carry all the time, I do.  I do because you never know when you will run into the guy that you arrested last week.   I carry because a few years ago, some nut walked into a movie theater in Colorado and shot a lot of people.  I carry because a few years ago, someone walked into an elementary school and shot a whole bunch of kids.  I can go on and on.  

 

Several years ago those actions would have been unheard of.  Schools, churches, businesses, conference centers, all of these places are locations where most people were not "prepared" to deal with a lunatic that decide to take his/her anger out on defenseless people. Any one of us can be faced with this situation where ever we work/live each day.  I for one would prefer to "be prepared" to deal with that situation.  

 

I am not saying that everyone needs to carry a firearm.  As a matter of fact, I feel that there is a huge portion of the population that has no business owning a firearm simply because they cannot grasp the concept of being a responsible firearm owner or they choose to do other unlawful activities. 

 

In the area where I live, we are extremely close to the southern border of the U.S.  As you enter the public lands (forest, BLM etc..) there are signs warning of smuggling and criminal activity that my be encountered.  When you are in the wilderness, it is not uncommon to see "pack trains" of drug smugglers walking some of the same trails as you.  While they have no desire to encounter you and they will take steps to avoid you, you always risk encountering them in a negative situation.  Unless you want to travel 200 miles away from home for every weekend camp out you are sharing the forests with the smugglers.  In our district, it is pretty much understood that if you are camping in one of these areas, many of the ASMs will be concealed carrying.  With that type of environment, you can either hide at home and give up on doing anything outside of your yard, or you can continue on with life using caution and taking steps to be safe.    A couple of years ago, a local rancher was killed when he encountered a smuggler in a remote area.  He is not the only one that has had encounters.  My own grandfather was the victim of an attempted carjacking in a very remote area when several people came out of the brush and wanted his truck.  He always carried a small pistol in his pocket.  The sight of that is what kept an 80 year old man from being stranded in the desert 10 miles from the nearest friendly person.  

 

I understand that there are some people that are completely anti-gun.  That is fine and understandable.  Everyone has different experiences and views on the world.  I would love it if I could leave my pistol at home.  However, I will continue to carry my sidearm in order to "be prepared" in the event that I hope and pray never happens.   

[Stosh]

@@bradne  Thank you, well said. 

 

As a prepared Scout,

 

I know first aid and hope to god I never have to use it. 

I buy car insurance and hope to god I never have to use it.

I pay taxes for police protection and hope to god I never have to use it.

I pay taxes for fire protection....

I buy health insurance...

I conceal carry...

[Krampus]

Why would I ask someone who wants to restrict guns for their opinion on what is the best concealed carry firearm for Scouting events?

 

Maybe to get their opinion?

[Stosh]

It depends on where the outing is.  If one is at Philmont the options are limited.  In 2000 when I was there, we were required to have tents because of the bear problem, 4 boys (none of mine thankfully) ended up in the hospital because of bear attacks.  Bear traps were up all over the place as were fake tent sites with traps, but no pepper spray was issued and no guns allowed.  If one is in a national forest in southern Arizona, one might want both pepper spray and a sidearm.  If one is in a national park it is recommended one carry spray and sidearm is optional.  If one has the boys over to the house for pizza, a sidearm and gun over the mantle is sufficient.

 

Plan the scout outings appropriate to today's world where situational awareness is important.  Avoid high crime areas like schools and movie theaters and other criminal safe zones that are marked "No weapons allowed".

[KenD500]

First, I am a LEO.

This made me stop to think.  I couldn't figure out what you astrological sign had to do with you carrying or not.  Then I figured it out - not Leo the Lion but LEO = Law Enforcement Officer.  That makes a lot more sense.

 

Whether one chooses to carry (concealed or not) is up to them.  But when we participate in an outing as a member of the BSA, shouldn't we follow their rules/guidelines? 

 

"A Scout is obedient.  A Scout follows the rules of his family, school, and troop. He obeys the laws of his community and country. If he thinks these rules and laws are unfair, he tries to have them changed in an orderly manner rather than disobeying them."

[Stosh]

This made me stop to think.  I couldn't figure out what you astrological sign had to do with you carrying or not.  Then I figured it out - not Leo the Lion but LEO = Law Enforcement Officer.  That makes a lot more sense.

 

Whether one chooses to carry (concealed or not) is up to them.  But when we participate in an outing as a member of the BSA, shouldn't we follow their rules/guidelines? 

 

"A Scout is obedient.  A Scout follows the rules of his family, school, and troop. He obeys the laws of his community and country. If he thinks these rules and laws are unfair, he tries to have them changed in an orderly manner rather than disobeying them."

Ken,

 

I don't think anyone is promoting breaking the rules.  Bradne is LEO (, I thought the same thing!) and can "be prepared" by carrying under BSA G2SS.  The issue is not whether we break the rules, but in light of today's world, we are only bringing up the possibility of trying to have them changed in an orderly manner to reflect the obligation to be prepared and be in a position to do our best to do our duty to God and Country and help other people at all times.  I think in general with appropriate background checks, and legal permits and training, scouters should have the option to do what they think is best for their boys and on occasion carry if necessary.  We aren't promoting the Wild West or anything of that nature, just being prepared for any and all possible emergencies. 

[Krampus]

For me it is a bit simpler when to apply my situation ethics around firearms and Scouts:

 

- Any Scouting event that is not in the back country = no fire arms and follow BSA rules.

 

- In the back country, especially in Alaska or elsewhere where bear attacks are very likely, bring a side arm.

 

LEO's, as allowed by law and where required, can carry at other Scouting events. 

 

Going to pinewood derby or a service project is no reason to carry your Glock just because you have a conceal-carry permit or are an off-duty LEO without a requirement to carry off duty.

Edited January 20, 2016 by Krampus