Who carries a firearm on Scout Outings???

[jpstodwftexas]

Pig Incident was during a Troop Camp out at a Local State Park..

 

I went out to gather firewood. Pig started chasing me. I ran like crazy and Pig Followed. I did not holler for help because I did not want anyone to come and get hurt by pig. Thought it would go away sooner or later. Well It Did much later than I had hoped. At one point I thought the pig was gonna be a beaver and chew down the tree to eat me.

 

Skunk kills were because that year there was a Major outbreak of Rabies. Gun was locked inside a Metal Container inside a Lock Box and a trigger lock also. So to have access you had to open 3 locks.. So yes not very readily available, but I would rather save 1 live than save none. The 8 skunks were killed over a 4 month period at the camp. Normally I do not condone the killing of Skunks for no reason..I have had two pets skunks myself.

 

Most Skunks can be avoided however once in awhile they can not. There are signs that a skunk is dangerous. Every skunk killed rabid was out during the day and acting aggressive towards someone. Skunks which avoided people out at night were left alone.

[Eagledad]

>>But for scouters to carry these weapons on troop outings, is something I cannot respect at all - and I hope BSA doesn't either.

[desertrat77]

Pack, finely crafted ideals...but what will you do if you run across the thug who doesn't care what you think of him? Or your view of the world? He's up to no good, pulls his gun on you. Or a knife. Or attacks you.

 

You didn't do anything wrong. Just in the wrong place, at the wrong time.

 

Brother, he's got you. It's a situation you don't want to be in, believe you me.

 

So if you don't want to carry a gun, that's fine. Just please consider the notion that your past record of care-free days on the trail carry no guarantee of the same in the future.

 

As JoeBob pointed out, some have had personal experiences in this department. So if someone chooses to legally carry a gun, that doesn't make them paranoid, or crazy. It's call prudence.

[jpstodwftexas]

Okay..

Step outside of your perfect little worlds and Look at it from a different point of View..

 

Scout Camps/ Wilderness Camps are Usually a Fair Distance from Cities

so several factors come into play

 

Like our Scout Camp Location many Camping Areas may have limit Wireless Service or not even have wireless service reception.

 

Many have no Monitoring or so much as an old fashion pay phone..

 

Distance will prohibit rapid armed response.

 

Psychos look for Defenseless People to attack...When as the last time a Nut Case attacked a shooting Contest or a Cop Convention?

 

Just like a Terrorist looking to kill as many innocent people, they are not opportunistic killers, They don't simply wake up and do this, they plan it. They look for the Best place to achieve the most amount damage in the shortest amount of time. They are not like sadistic killers who select targets where they simply slip away only to stalk another victim. They look for large groups of defenseless people to attack. They look where they can indiscriminately shoot as many rounds as possible and hit the most amount of people. They are looking to inflict harm more than likely than to kill..

 

Irresponsible and reckless carrying should not be allowed.

Public Display of weapons (Law Enforcement) should be done right and most of the time discretly. Such as Holstered or slung over shoulder with muzzle pointed away from anyone (Up or Down). If your twirling or Playing Quick Draw McCraw you need your butt kicked and removed from event.

 

Councils could adopt a policy where you obtain permission prior to carrying the weapon..

 

I work for a Prison, we have to ask permission to carry a weapon onto state prison property prior to carrying it. Conditions have to be meet before you can.

Legal recognized Concealed Licensed Handgun..

Must be under two locks at all times

.

 

Dealing with Convicted Felons for 10 years has given me more insight into their thinking than many of you. No one will ever truly understand Evil.

 

[Basementdweller]

Guess I should just stay in my ghetto where it is safe....You people in the country and suburbs are just plain crazy.

[Basementdweller]

So JP let me get this straight.......You were on a troop campout and disappeared for 11 hours and nobody came looking for you??????

 

 

[WasE61]

I'll have to agree with Basement (must be something with Buckeyes).

 

I think I'll be a little less inclined to entertain the wife's thoughts on camping that before knowing that most of the other campers in the area are packing for no real reason.

[Eagle732]

Well Beav you might be the expert on Alaska but several years ago the outfitter who flew me and a buddy up river to our drop off point on the Salcha River for a 100 mile canoe trip insisted that we take his Winchester shot gun with slugs. We lashed it into the canoe in its case, unloaded for the 6 day trip. When we put out at the first road crossing and were waiting for our pick up the owner of the gas station we called from told us that a woman had been killed by a grizzly bear two weeks prior about a mile up the river where we had just been.

I'm guessing very few people who spend a lot of time in the outdoors in Alaska do so without a firearm

And the second week of that trip was spent backpacking the Toklat River and foothills around McKinley in Denali NP. Earlier this year someone was killed by a grizzly. Of course you're in a national park so not guns allowed.

Just sayin'

[jpstodwftexas]

They did after a while..

They knew the General Area I went off in..

 

Amazing How you can head off in one Direction and end up in another one...and how Far you really walk when not paying attention..and then to tack on the running like a Mad man..pig did not get me until I got tired of Running and started to climb the Tree..That is when It got in it's licks along with the bites..

 

Was kinda embarrassing to be found up a tree by several rescuers..but at least I had an excuse...I did appreciate the searchers all 40 of them.

 

I admit I did sleep some and although I did get hurt nothing really was life threatening as in bleed out..but It could have easily been a "found Dead Body" end of search event. But In the first few minutes with all the bleeding I did say a few prayers..I usually pass out at the sight of too much blood, especially my own

[Sentinel947]

"Pack, finely crafted ideals...but what will you do if you run across the thug who doesn't care what you think of him? Or your view of the world? He's up to no good, pulls his gun on you. Or a knife. Or attacks you. "

 

If I come across a thug and he attacks me, I'm giving him anything he asks for, and if he wants to kill me, I doubt I can draw my weapon before he decides to do so.

 

I live on a College Campus in a really rough neighborhood. I don't really fear getting mugged or just attacked out of the blue. I don't go out early in the morning, I try to travel in groups, and I keep situational awareness. I don't feel the need to carry a weapon of any sort.

 

There isn't anything anybody is going to say that will convince me that leaders should be packing heat on a Scouting Trip. Very similarly to the Aurora theater shooting, I doubt my ability to locate the shooter in the dark, and send rounds downrange safely without putting the youth in even more danger than they already are in. With all guns, you can't hit what you cannot locate.

 

I'll take my chances with the psychos.

 

Bringing my fists to a gunfight,

Sentinel947

[qwazse]

"Psychos look for Defenseless People to attack...When as the last time a Nut Case attacked a shooting Contest or a Cop Convention?"

 

I think there was an attack on a CIA base near the beltway just a couple years ago - beat the guards to the draw and kept on firing.

 

But yeah, psychos (once you know a few) are also pathologically lazy. They generally don't hike miles and miles into nowhere just to get off their shots, not while there's a building full of innocents nearby. (God help us all.)

 

Bears want easy food. Lionesses want to account for every large mammal anywhere near their cubs. Pigs want to clear their territory of aimless wanderers.

 

[beav, I'm not arguing you, but there are captains and then there are captains. You have to be a little self-absorbed to think you can hold a hull together year after year on open ocean. Some do that with more grace than others. That's all I'm sayin' about that.]

 

[Beavah]

"Early that year someone was killed by a grizzly."

 

Yah, hmmm...

 

Early this year lots of someones died from accidental discharge of a firearm. Are yeh sure yeh really want to make a claim that decisions should be made on da basis of isolated, low-probability incidents that had a high likelihood of "user error"? That sword cuts mighty well da other way.

 

Early that year I bet a whole bunch of someones died of cardiac arrest. Are yeh carryin' an AED? That would be far more effective at savin' lives, IF that's what yeh really cared about.

 

Again, I'm just fine with responsible, intelligent, proficient firearms enthusiasts carryin' (and of course they can carry in da National Parks now, thanks to President Obama). I often carry a fly rod as a hobby in da mountains. To each his own.

 

What yeh all are makin' me increasingly uncomfortable about is fearful, slightly irrational gun owners carryin'. Folks who genuinely believe risks which are out of whack with da actual danger. For me, that shows they lack da judgment and mental balance required to carry responsibly, eh? They're goin' to be more likely to brandish in situations which don't require it, because their sense for risk is poor. Folks like that shouldn't carry, for everyone's sake.

 

Just like this mom in CT, eh? If yeh want a Bushmaster .223 because it's a fun rifle to take to da range as a hobby, more power to yeh. It is a fun rifle to take to da range. If yeh must have a Bushmaster .223 with frangible rounds in high capacity magazines because yeh fear da imminent economic collapse of da nation, then yeh shouldn't be allowed to have one.

 

So if it's just a hobby, then yeh can leave it behind at home when yeh go on da scout outing. If yeh honestly feel a need to have a gun for "safety" on a scout outing, then yeh shouldn't be allowed to come.

 

Beavah

(This message has been edited by Beavah)

[Eagle732]

Just a little antidotal evidence, take it for what it's worth, or what you want to make out of it.

[HICO_Eagle]

I find it quite comical to have charges of paranoia and ridicule coming from a bunch of people who are irrationally afraid of a group of people that has the safest demographics in the nation. Some of you are expressing outright fear of being outdoors with some others who have admitted to carrying firearms when you likely would NEVER know they were carrying if it weren't for this unscientific survey.

 

I would have to have very good reasons to violate the G2SS and carry on an outing with you but if I did I would give long odds that you would never ever know. Just in this thread we've had several people either admit to carrying on outings or know of people who do -- how many incidents have we had from someone carrying a firearm on an outing?

 

Beavah alleges a lot of deaths caused by accidental discharge this year. Citations please. I ask for two reasons. The first is that there are numerous stories of lives every month SAVED by citizens exercising their Second Amendment rights despite the inherent bias in most major media against reporting on this. The second is that most situations called "accidental discharge" are (in my experience) NEGLIGENT discharges and condemned most vociferously by CCW permit holders. Most people I know with CCW permits are the most aware of the status of their firearms, the calmest in any situation and the most likely to think a situation through before acting. Note that I say "most" -- it's definitely not universal (but what classification of humans other than "dying" is?).

 

How many of you carry a first aid kit while hiking and camping? How often have you had to use the large bandages in it? Why do you bother training in CPR or Wilderness First Aid when the chances of having to use either are vanishingly small? If you go scuba diving, do you practice buddy breathing or carry a pony bottle? Ever use either? How many times have any of you dug into and used the spare fuses located in your car's fuse box?

 

I've got far more rational things to worry about like whether the unit camped across the valley is putting their fire cold out. At least I've SEEN units leave smoldering fires behind (and yes, we stopped the truck and rushed to go put it out).

[IM_Kathy]

nope - biggest reason is it against BSA rules... plus I do not have my permit to carry yet... once I do I still won't as it is against BSA rules.

 

sometimes day of troop meeting I will be shooting at the range and not have time to take gun home. Not only is it properly locked and stored... but I also make sure car is fully locked and not send anyone to my car to get anything.

 

now do I see that there could be times where having one would be helpful? YES

 

do I see that there could be just as much risk by having one and wrong person getting ahold of it? YES

 

so it's a toss-up. But I do hope that they will eventually add a handgun merit badge.