Who carries a firearm on Scout Outings???

[Liz]

1 hour ago, TAHAWK said:

So who told you its legal in "most states"?

 

 

 

So that's 13 or 14 states out of 50 where it's illegal? 

If that's the case, then yeah, it's legal in most states. 

Not taking a position on the other argument, which is whether it's advisable... 

If you're in a state where you are doing it legally, then the BSA can't have you arrested for violating BSA policy on the matter; they CAN, however, revoke your membership, if they want to. Maybe that's a risk worth taking in certain situations, maybe it isn't. Not going to articulate an opinion on that one. 

[TravelerJoe]

Except groups can regulate what you have in your private property.  This is always a fight at manufacturing and construction sites I'm on and at the end of the day they make the rules.

[TAHAWK]

Illegal in 11 of the 13 I checked. But the burden of proof is on he who asserts the affirmative.  I assert no more than I posted. 

Then, for what it's worth, there is BSA policy.

No Personal Firearms at Scouting Activities

The BSA is reinforcing its stance on handguns or other firearms at Scouting activities, with the open or concealed carry of handguns or other firearms.

1. While various state laws may have authorized individual Scouters to legally carry or conceal firearms, they are NOT permitted to carry them while involved in Scouting activities outside of the shooting sports program.
2. This applies to all persons involved in the activity, as the activity should be under the control of an appropriate Scouter. This has not changed.
3. Review the BSA policy in the Guide to Safe Scouting in both the Shooting Sports section and the unauthorized activity listing that states, “Except for law enforcement officers required to carry firearms within their jurisdictions, firearms shall not be brought on camping, hiking, backpacking, or other Scouting activities except for those specifically planned for target shooting under supervision of a currently certified BSA national shooting sports director or National Rifle Association firearms instructor.”

[RememberSchiff]

@TravelerJoe welcome to scouter.com

[ParkMan]

Laws are irrelevant here.  We are all volunteers in the BSA.  They can revoke our membership if we violate the rules of conduct for adult leaders.  If the rules saw "No guns" and you bring a gun, the BSA can terminate your status as a volunteer.

It's fine that you want to debate this - but the rules are quite clear here.  No guns allowed.

[JoeBob]

51 minutes ago, ParkMan said:

It's fine that you want to debate this - but the rules are quite clear here.  No guns allowed.

Which is more important:

1- The physical well-being of someone in my care, should the need arise for a firearm in the backwoods. 

2- My continued membership in BSA.

 

If I lost someone or someone became injured due to a wild animal or wild humans, I would not deserve to continue as their leader/protector.  BSA rules are what's irrelevant, and written by lawyers with an eye towards liability.  No scout ever knew that I carried, my pack was just a little heavier.  

Edited June 24, 2019 by JoeBob

[David CO]

58 minutes ago, ParkMan said:

Laws are irrelevant here.  We are all volunteers in the BSA.  They can revoke our membership if we violate the rules of conduct for adult leaders.  If the rules saw "No guns" and you bring a gun, the BSA can terminate your status as a volunteer.

It's fine that you want to debate this - but the rules are quite clear here.  No guns allowed.

BSA should really get with the times. Aside from the uniformed police officer, we have 4 other people at our public middle school who carry concealed weapons for the protection of the students. The uniformed officer knows who they are. So does the administration and the school board. Nobody else needs to know.

By the way, I'm not one of them. I'm a klutz. I would probably blow my fool head off.

[ParkMan]

1 hour ago, JoeBob said:

Which is more important:

1- The physical well-being of someone in my care, should the need arise for a firearm in the backwoods. 

2- My continued membership in BSA.

 

If I lost someone or someone became injured due to a wild animal or wild humans, I would not deserve to continue as their leader/protector.  BSA rules are what's irrelevant, and written by lawyers with an eye towards liability.  No scout ever knew that I carried, my pack was just a little heavier.  

I'm just restating policy here and describing how things work.

I get that you don't agree with the policy.  if you want to ignore that policy - that's your decision.  That's how things get changed in most organizations.  People ignore the rules, get caught, make it an issue, and then drive change.  Or they get caught and removed from the organization.  I guess it's a question of how strongly you feel about the importance of this issue.

 

[Eagle94-A1]

3 hours ago, David CO said:

By the way, I'm not one of them. I'm a klutz. I would probably blow my fool head off.

As my Latin 3 teacher told us, 'Practice, practice, practice."

I wonder what BSA would say about the camp out that had 36 armed adults with automatic firearms, specifically MP5s. Absolutely nothing, except laugh.

[awanatech]

4 hours ago, ParkMan said:

Laws are irrelevant here.  We are all volunteers in the BSA.  They can revoke our membership if we violate the rules of conduct for adult leaders.  If the rules saw "No guns" and you bring a gun, the BSA can terminate your status as a volunteer.

It's fine that you want to debate this - but the rules are quite clear here.  No guns allowed.

BSA also has policies in place about the mixing of males & females in Dens, Packs & Troops, but many here have no problem talking about how they work around those policies, often with an under the table "wink, wink" from the DE, SE or other BSA representatives.  So BSA policies have become like employee handbooks.  Basically, these are the rules.  But some of them we let you break, some of them we don't.  You won't know which ones are ok to break until we want to enforce them, even if another Council is ok not to enforce them.  Then, we may terminate you (revoke your membership), or we may tell you that your doing great by getting more Scouts signed up.  

When BSA gets lax on enforcing some policies, they lose credibility at enforcing other policies, too.

[ParkMan]

Guess I'd just say that some rules (like boys vs. girls in a den) is one thing.  Don't bring a gun to a scouting event is another.

I find myself in the weird position of feeling like I'm defending the BSA here.  Feels to me that we want the BSA to enforce rules we like and then look the other way on rules we don't.  Then when we get into a discussion about rules we then criticize the BSA and say they are inconsistent.

Guess I'm just reminded that we're talking about a youth organization.  They are not going to kick people out for mixing den or breaking some advancement rules.  But, start bringing a gun to a den meeting and have a parent report that to council and I expect you'll see a different response.  

[RichardB]

13 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

As my Latin 3 teacher told us, 'Practice, practice, practice."

I wonder what BSA would say about the camp out that had 36 armed adults with automatic firearms, specifically MP5s. Absolutely nothing, except laugh.

Send me the photo and names and I'll take care of it.    

[Eagledad]

21 minutes ago, RichardB said:

Send me the photo and names and I'll take care of it.    

My wife was surprised to see "Fire Ring" ads on her Facebook after requesting I build a fire ring in the back yard for the grand kids. Apparently the digital gods don't trust my fire ring building skills.

Try never to forget that The Man is always lurking. 🙄

Barry

Edited June 25, 2019 by Eagledad

[David CO]

15 hours ago, ParkMan said:

I find myself in the weird position of feeling like I'm defending the BSA here.  

eek. We wouldn't want to do that.

 

[Eagle94-A1]

5 hours ago, RichardB said:

Send me the photo and names and I'll take care of it.    

Considering the adult with the body guards is a Distinguished Eagle Scout, and told this story to the CSE and everyone at the 1998 All Hands conference, and nothing happened, I do not think anything you can help.