Guide to Safe Scouting Question

[Bob White]

 

That is not correct packsaddle!

My opinion about the rule is that the BSA does not want to be associated with pointing firearms at people.

 

My interpretation of the rule is that the BSA does not want any type of firearm pointed at people.

 

I hope you would agree this is different than what you repesented my interpretation to be.

 

Bob White

 

[evmori]

Firearm - A weapon, especially a pistol or rifle, capable of firing a projectile and using an explosive charge as a propellant.

 

Right from Websters.

 

So a squirt gun is ok! Doesn't fit the definition of firearm. And if lasar tag wasn't specifically listed, then it would be OK too!

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[FScouter]

Ed, and some of the others:

Apparently you didnt hear about the 6-year-old boy that pointed a gun at his Mommy and said BANG, YOURE DEAD. He was right. He killed his mother with his Dads handgun. Whose fault is that? Its Dads fault for leaving his loaded gun out. And its both parents fault for teaching their child that it is OK to point guns at people.

 

So you people go right ahead and argue about the wording in the Guide to Safe Scouting. I am going to use the common sense that God gave me and teach the boys in our troop that it is NEVER, NEVER, NEVER acceptable to point a gun or any gun-like weapon, or gun-like toy at another person, EVER.

 

[Bob White]

Ed,

Is it your belief that the BSA allows you to point a BB rifle at a person, since it was not specifically identified and it does not meet the dictionary definition of firearm?

 

What leads you to believe that a squirt gun is not included by the word ANY?

 

Bob White

 

 

[Bob White]

Ed,

Is it your belief that the BSA allows you to point a BB rifle at a person, since it was not specifically identified and it does not meet the dictionary definition of firearm?

 

What leads you to believe that a squirt gun is not included by the word ANY?

 

Bob White

 

 

[acco40]

FScouter, allow me a few minor editorial comments please.

 

Kids (boys predominantly) will pick up sticks, use their fingers, and almost any object and make it a "gun." It is not so much that parents teach them that it is okay to point guns at people it is the fact that they do not teach that it is not okay to point guns at people. A significant difference in my book!

[FScouter]

That reminds me of another story about the guy that got shot down by the Sheriff. He was drunk and pointed a squirt gun at the Sheriff.

 

Ed, I pray you're not teaching boys to point squirt guns at cops.

[FScouter]

Mr. Acco40:

You are absolutely dead wrong. There isnt any difference at all. Whether the parents taught the child to point guns at people, or allowed our society to teach it, the result is the same. The mommy is still dead.

 

[Fat Old Guy]

"And its both parents fault for teaching their child that it is OK to point guns at people. "

 

No, the problem is that they didn't teach their child the difference between real and toy guns. The difference is distinct and easily grasped by children.

 

I grew up in a community where hunting was a popular sport and hunting rifles just hung on the wall. We also all played Cowboys and Oppressed Native Americans or Invading American Imperialists vs. The Misunderstood Nazis with cap guns. Oddly, all of us knew that you didn't point dad's 30-06 at anyone.

 

Bob asked, "Since when did any scouting regulation or policy have any force or affect outside of scouting activities?"

 

Since BSA expects that all Scouts will live by their teachings when they are not on a Scouting activity, they should expect this rule to carry on in the non-Scouting part of life.

 

 

[mk9750]

FOG,

 

Sorry, but I've got to disagree with your last point. I don't think the the BSA requires that we live by their rules outside of Scouting. We certainly should be living by the Scout Oath and Law, and I also think we are expected to be a role model to the boys in our units even outside of Scouting.

 

But I don't think it is Scouting's position to regulate our actions outside of Scouting. Some examples (I know some of these have been debated before, and few have been agreed on. But I think you'll get my point):

 

1) We are not permitted to smoke in front of Scouts. But there is nothing that prevents us from smoking outside of the Scouting program.

 

2) Same with drinking alchohol.

 

3) We are not supposed to discuss topics of a sexual nature with Scouts. Such a discussion outside of Scouting is not regulated (except to the extend of following the Scout Oath and Law).

 

4) We are not permitted to parachute, if I'm not mistaken, as a Scout event. But I doubt the BSA would want to remove us is we become avowed parachutists.

 

5) The BSA does not want us pointing weapons, or facsimiles of weapons, at people. They are attempting to promote safe gun use. But they don't go so far as to say we can't hunt, or belong to the military, or police units while being a member of the BSA.

 

I could go on, but I hope my point is clear. Yes, we are all expected to act Scout - like. I don't believe that being Scout - like can't include some of the activities listed as unapproved as Scouting activities.

 

Mark

[FScouter]

Mr. FatOldGuy:

The epitaph on the dead mommys gravestone:

But I told him the difference between a real gun and a play gun.

 

You go ahead and teach your child the difference. But be sure you also teach him that pointing a toy gun at the wrong person can get him killed. And I dont just mean by cops in uniform.

 

[Fat Old Guy]

"1) We are not permitted to smoke in front of Scouts. But there is nothing that prevents us from smoking outside of the Scouting program.

 

"2) Same with drinking alchohol."

 

The intent behind both rules is to discourage the Scouts from drinking and smoking in their lives outside of Scouting.

 

I still ask, if the riflery instructor at camp is attacked by a knife wielding madman, should the Scouts the scouts simply cower in fear or should a BRAVE scout pick up his .22 and pop the nut?

 

Remember the case about ten years ago in which a father was being beaten by an intruder, a young lad went and got his .22 and shot the intruder, saving the father's life. Maybe if he'd been a Boy Scout, the dad would be dead. The papers around the country are filled with stories of children saving lives with guns and, oddly, accidental deaths with firearms are the lowest that they've been in decades.

[evmori]

"Is it your belief that the BSA allows you to point a BB rifle at a person, since it was not specifically identified and it does not meet the dictionary definition of firearm?"

 

No - my point is once again the language of the rule.

 

"What leads you to believe that a squirt gun is not included by the word ANY?"

 

It doesn't fit the definition of firearm & isn't listed.

 

I agree that pointing any type of firearm or gun or any weapon for that fact at another person is wrong.

 

"The intent behind both rules is to discourage the Scouts from drinking and smoking in their lives outside of Scouting."

 

You wrote these rules? You must have since you know the intent. If not, you must be reading between the lines.

 

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Fat Old Guy]

"But I told him the difference between a real gun and a play gun."

 

They probably hadn't. If you pay attention to such things, after most accidental shootings by children, the parent will say, "I didn't know that he knew the gun was in the house" or "I didn't have time to teach him about gun safety". The right age to start is when they can talk.

[Bob White]

"It doesn't fit the definition of firearm & isn't listed."

 

Neither does a BB gun,and neither are listed. So Ed, what leads you to believe that the rule applies to BB guns and not squirt guns when it says ANY firearm.

(This message has been edited by Bob White)