Does SM report to Committee Chair or Charter organizational rep. (COR)

[KoreaScouter]

I think BW and I are in violent agreement here. There is no substitute for all persons associated with Scouting to know how this is supposed to work, and to stay abreast of changes and developments. That's the ideal; most of us live with the real. Most parents only skim the permission slips -- they're not going to read all the references we Forum members keep on our nightstands and have converted into .pdf files for our Palm Pilots. Many volunteers nod off during the YP video -- they're not going to go the extra mile to attend extra training and Roundtables.

 

Poorly written bylaws (or whatever you want to call them) are not the disease, they are a symptom. The disease is the adults who wrote them, who are in serious need of a paradigm shift. The complicator is that even without the bylaws, the adults are still there. If the committee is prone to to giving you help you don't want or need, they'll do it with or without bylaws. Unless you start your own troop, you have to deal with the reality in front of you.

 

If a committee wants to hand me a set of bylaws, that's fine, thanks very much. I operate within the covers of the SM Handbook, and will continue to do so, and if there's a conflict between the bylaws and book, I follow the book. They can find another SM if it's something they feel strongly about. What I don't do is get worked up over whether or not there are bylaws, why they have them, or whether they address every possible contingency, because they can't.

 

Like beauty, micromanagement is in the eye of the beholder. I'm reminded of a time when I was on duty in a command post in Europe, authenticating an emergency action message directing my unit to unlock nuclear weapons. As we carefully verified each section of the message with our commanding officer bent over our shoulders watching, one of the other officers watching this operation made a "micromanagement" reference. Without averting his eyes from what we were doing, he replied "...what you call micromanagement, I call attention to detail."

 

KS

[Bob White]

I agree that an orientation pamphlet is a useful communication tool in the way and content you describe.

 

The Key-3 is a council/district term, it is not called that on the unit level in any BSA document but it is a useful way to explain the relationship between the unit leader, Committee Chair and Charter Organization Representative in a way familiar to most scout leaders.

 

Bob White

[Twocubdad]

Interesting....

 

Never really though of our COR as a key part of our pack leadership (mainly because until a few months ago, we only had a paper COR). I felt he was primarily a liaison Even in the official job description, I don't see where he has much to do with the operations of the unit. Most of the COR's responsibilities are to "promote," "encourage," "emphasize," or "suggest."

[Bob White]

The BSA describes the Charter Organization Representative as "the head of the scouting department in the organization" (Troop Committee Guidebook pg 7, among other resource locations). I would say that is a significant role, wouldn't you?. Especially since he or she represents the owners of the unit.

 

Bob White

[gene loy]

 

Bob wrote:

RE: Organizational Chart

Posted: Tuesday, September 16, 2003: 6:07:18 AM

 

Gene, look at page 11 of the Troop Committee Guidebook, Then read pages 13 through 18.

 

Bob White

 

 

Dear Bob White, after review of the information you suggested..... I feel much better.... Much better in regards to the fact that I did not miss anything when I looked through the guide book, before I wrote for help!

 

Ok... All kidding aside... Bob, I need you to know I respect you. I respect you for a few reasons. You are a complete stranger to me and yet you are willing to help me. I also respect you for your dedication to this forum. I am not sure after reviewing most of your posts and replies where you stand with God, but I am encouraged by the very careful way you word things so not to offend anyone in scouting. I truly have a lot to learn. I also respect you for another reason. When I was young my father and my grandfather taught me the value of waking earlier. The accomplished in life often are up before everyone else and attending the needs of the family. I see your response to me at 6am as family and value and it means allot to me. I respect this attribute that I see in you.

 

Bob I am at a very serious crossroads of my life. For the past 5 years I have dedicated myself to spending as much time with my son as humanly possible. Scouting has given me opportunities to spend with my son that I could have never imagined. My son and I prayed for a troop that he and I could grow with. What a journey it has been. The troop we joined was located in one of the largest churches in the world and is known around the world. We are not members of the church yet we have a love for all that help us there. The troop was started by others before me, started backwards from the troop up, without the church even truly knowing it. I was asking to be Scout Master 3 years ago and when asked, I truly wanted to run for the hills. I went out and found a stable troop close by and tried every trick in the book to get my son to run with me to it.

 

Dad, he said I want to stay here where my friends are and at a place I feel comfortable. With my goal in mind of spending time with my son I dedicated myself to a task / ministry so big I would have never imagined. I realized if the troop was to succeed it must be aligned correctly with the Charter Organization. I met with them and we were given direction. Fix the problems first and then we will talk. So we did. With the help of some very special people and the grace and wisdom of God we trained our leaders and separated ourselves from those who could not or would not follow the direction we were given. The bylaws created for the moment served us well but as I can now see they may need to be put aside for a reminder of where not to go.

 

Recently the troop was acknowledged by our Charter Organization on television around the world during a service project that was a huge success. The troop was just recently given the funds to support a large troop for many years to come. We also just had a Eagle Court of Honor for my son and three other boys at the church that was unbelievable. Bob, I can safely say very few in life have ever heard of, let alone seen an Eagle Court of Honor like this one. I can not tell you how grateful I am to God and everyone that was involved for the gift that I received in being part of such a perfect ceremony.

 

Bob, on Friday 9-19-03 the troop will either start fresh and new from the top down or the troop will fold. The ultimate goal was to establish a troop with a firm foundation that would last for years to come at a location that has the opportunity to share scouting around the world on a weekly basis. In the process of creating a firm foundation we unfortunately lost some that were unhappy with the troop. However they have moved to another troop so the boys are being taken care of. Those that were unhappy are still unhappy and so life moves on.

 

We have 5 boys left in the troop and in the process of reorganization we have found the leadership divided, the charter organization representative overwhelmed, a brand new DE that is confused and me with a dream that somehow someway its all going to work out. I need a miracle. I have been told that I am a very patient person. But, Bob I want my miracle now!

 

Where do you and others fit in. hmmm I am not sure

 

I am not sure because I keep asking for a chart that would be so simple for those around me to see that we are missing something and yet no one has one. Its not beyond me to say I am making a mistake in what I am asking for. I know I am asking for the wrong thing by all the responses I received to my original post.

 

How do I help the COR and my ASM to realize there is help, guidance and wisdom out there for us. In looking for answers I have found BSA truly does have a method in place that promises success if we will just follow it.

 

Your truly

 

Gene Loy

 

[Bob White]

Thank you for the kind words Gene,

Where I believe your answers lay is in training.

 

New Leader Essentials explains the relationship between the BSA, Charter Organization, Unit Committee and Leadership.

 

Troop Committee Challenge explains the roles, responsibilities and operation of a committee.

 

Scoutmaster/Asst SM Leader Specific Training explains the responsibilities of those offices and the methods of scouting.

 

Introduction to Outdoor Skills Instructs you on the skills leading to First Class

 

Wood Badge teaches advanced management skills

 

The Troop Committee Guidebook I refered you to explained that the Charter Org owns the troop and is responsible for providing a COR and a Committee Chair and selecting and approving all remaining adult leadership. It goes on to explain the the scoutmaster is the program lead, the Committee chair works to support the troop activities through cooperation with the the scoutmaster and by assigning tasks to the committee members. The COR is the head of the scouting department and is reponsible for seeing that the needs of the CO are being met and for insuring that the adult leaders are trained and following the program.

 

Forget about who answers to whom, that is a confrontation waiting to happen. Focus on cooperating to deliver a quality scouting program to the youth by each person fullfilling their specific responsibilities.

 

Please feel free to personal message me for more assistance.

 

Bob White

 

 

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[SM406]

Bob is right on the mark about training. The other thing to be aware of is it is going to take time, so be patient. I have recently taken over a troop were the former scoutmaster was a good scouter, but the years wore on him and he slowly moved away from the scouting program for the boys, he tried to do it all. We are down to 7 active boys, but they are starting to bring their friends to troop meetings, which is a positive sign. I have been slowly introducing to the scouts again about the patrol method and being scout lead. It is really neat to see the scouts attitude change to the positive. If we get one goal accomplished per troop meeting towards being scout lead, then I'm happy. It has been eight months to get to where we are now and we still have a ways to go. Good Luck!

 

SM406