are committees designed to give us headaches or what?

[FScouter]

Interesting dilemma. What is an "annual permit"?

[KoreaScouter]

Let's put aside for a moment the debate over whether or not every departure from the normal meeting place requires a tour permit.

 

What's really complicating this, in my mind, is the notion that the adult leaders deliver the Scouting program subject to the preferences of the committee, with the COR as a necessary evil and and autograph at recharter time. In fact, if I understand the relationship between the SM, the Committee, and the CO, it's the CO that actually "owns and operates" the troop (that's a quote from my SM Handbook). The COR is supposed to be "an active link between the Troop and the organization."

To your chagrin, that's what she appears to be doing.

 

I have no idea what other variables exist here, but it seems to me that if your COR has a problem with your program, you have a problem. Assuming she's still well-connected with your District leadership, I'd tread lightly, but try to discuss with your DE.

 

KS

[acco40]

In my district, we are trying to bring training to the units, not bring units to training with respect to the Committee Challenge. Talk with your district training chair and suggest that the Committee Challenge be brought to your troop! You save yourself the inertia of trying to get the committee members to training.

 

AS many have said, the committee supprots the plan the boys develop, the SM/SAs guide and the CO owns.

[acco40]

In my district, we are trying to bring training to the units, not bring units to training with respect to the Committee Challenge. Talk with your district training chair and suggest that the Committee Challenge be brought to your troop! You save yourself the inertia of trying to get the committee members to training.

 

AS many have said, the committee supports the plan the boys develop, the SM/SAs guide and the CO owns.

[Eagledad]

>> have no idea what other variables exist here, but it seems to me that if your COR has a problem with your program, you have a problem.

[LauraT7]

Fscouter -

 

an "annual permit" for our purposes is a local tour permit filed with the council for "any and all outings and campouts within our local area and council" We file it once a year, with all the registered leaders and drivers, vehicles, etc listed, and all known planned activities then on the calendar. It is signed by a committee person and the SM . we mail it in to the council each fall after the calendar is approved.

 

we keep a copy - and sometimes - we fax over a copy with the specifics added when we change plans or add a driver, etc.

 

if we do something that requires specific leadership or requirements - out of council, over 500 miles, high adventure, a water activitiy that requires trained people, etc - we file a separate appropriate tour permit - Local or National before the event.

 

[Eagledad]

>>We file it once a year, with all the registered leaders and drivers, vehicles, etc listed, and all known planned activities then on the calendar.

[NWScouter]

My council would not acept an "annual tour permit". It is ment to used for each outing. Now there may be debate when you need tofile one and the definition in council has changed a bit. But for each time it is required a unit must submit it signed correctly by the leaders of that outing.

Are there any other councils out there that accept annual tour permits?

[Eagle Foot]

Our council accepts annual tour permits. Now saying that...it only excepts annual tour permits to council property as blanket coverage for one year. This was a debate a few years ago until the council sent a letter to all units. They would except an annual tour permit only if you went to council proptery. No exceptions!!! It also advised that each unit leader was responsible to update the permit if at anytime anything changed, otherwise it was void.

 

I suppose this was an attempt to reduce paper work for those who did not like to do paper work.

 

It has always been interesting to me why people do not like to follow rules. That's the easy part...the hard part is all of the stuff around the rules.

 

Tour permits are ment to help protect us as scouts and scouters. Part of the rules...I've allways made my children give me a tour permit when they leave the house. Where are your going?Who will you be with ? How many are going? What are you going to do? What time are you leaving? What time will you be back?

 

Tour Permits---the basics of communication, survival information for Search and Rescue, accountability.

 

The best search and rescue is the one that diden't happen.

 

Eagle Foot

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Bob White]

Eaglefoot,

If the purpose was to lessen paperwork then why did they have you fill it out? Tour permits are not required for traveling to or from local council properties. It says so in the opening paragraph of the form.

 

Just curious

Bob White

 

[evmori]

My council requires local tour permits for all trips under 500 miles regardless of the destination. I know of nothing on the form that states it doesn't need to be filed when traveling to local council property.

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10(This message has been edited by evmori)

[NWScouter]

Bob,

That bit about council properties must be added by your council. I checked on the BSA site and it has a tour permit: http://www.scouting.org/nav/enter.jsp?c=xds&terms=tour+permit

It does not mention anything about council. properties.

[Laurie]

In the very first paragraph of the tour permit is a statement in parenthesis that council camps don't require a permit.

 

Our council issues a statement in our program guide (the council calendar--not sure if the name varies by council) that local tour permits are only needed when traveling outside the council boundaries. I questioned that, for the tour permit does not seem to allow that much leeway. We did not used to file these before, but I'm one might cause a headache for I have brought this issue before our committee. Interesting thing happened: a discussion on all the ways to avoid using it ensued. I just shake my head at that, for I don't get it. Since either the committee chair or I would be happy to fill out, sign, and handle this form, noone was asked to do anything other than give 2 week's notice of an outing. We'll see how this works out as the year progresses.

[NWScouter]

I recheck it and I missed the reference to council camp. Ive copied it below.

 

This application must be filed with local council service center two weeks in advance of scheduled activity for proper clearance. It is used for trips of less than 500 miles. If destination is 500 miles or more one way or outside the U.S.A. (local council camp excepted), use National Tour Permit Application, No. 4419B. If backcountry trip, be sure to know BSA Wilderness Use Policy.

I believe that based on the wording it gives an exception to using a national tour permit if you are going to a council camp of over 500 miles away but you still need to use the local tour permit.

 

[Bob White]

I would agree NW. I erred on the local for that. However all three councils wher I have been an adult volunteer have not required local tour permits for the council camps. We did however have to fill out a council camp use form which had basically all the same info plus the camp fees. I expect that those were taken accepted in place of the Tour permit. Again my error.

Bob White