Behind the scenes leader - must I wear a uniform?

[CharityAK]

Hello All

 

I am Advancement Officer and Treasurer for our troop. I like to help behind the scenes, doing paperwork, errands and other things that could absorb the SM, ASM's time so that they can concentrate on the "face time" with the boys. I'm not comfortable being directly involved with the boys during meetings and/or taking a public role. I prefer to let the guys lead so that the boys have that male role model thing going on. Our committee chair is a woman and I notice she prefers the same non-public supportive role.

 

Since I don't consider myself "technically" a "leader", must I wear a unifom. We are currently going through a SM change and the new SM gave me a woman's scout blouse and seemed very pleased to have procured one for me. I didn't have the heart to tell him I preferred to remain in the more anonymous street clothes. I'm not sure when he had in mind for me to wear a uniform. I only show up at scout meetings for about the first 20 minutes to check books, sign paperwork, or check the library which I'm trying to build up. Since I have karate class just 30 minutes after the scout meeting starts I'm usually in my karate gi because I have to dart so quickly to class.

 

Do you think I should be wearing a scout uniform during my casual, brief appearance at meetings? I'm only there to do paperwork stuff off in teh corner somehwere and don't really interact with the boys unless I'm checking their books for advancement updates. Should I wear a uniform at the COHs? I usually wear street clothes. Should I wear a uniform at BORs?

 

I want to keep my supportive, low-key, behind the scenes role, but this new SM is a by-the-book kind of guy. He is excellent and I am thrilled to have him. Want to do the right thing. But what is the right thing here?

 

Charity

[acco40]

A few answers come to mind. One, nobody MUST wear a uniform. It is optional for all, including youth.

 

Two, for boy scouts, I do not believe there is a "female blouse." The yellow shirt (as I was informed) is for Cub Scouts (female). The tan, for Boy Scouts (female & male).

 

The question is why do you not want to wear the uniform? Any hesitancy on your part MAY be interpreted as a reason the boys don't won't to wear the uniform. Why not err on the side of wearing the uniform?

 

P.S. While sometimes an evil necessity, one should not be both advancement chair and treasurer (only one position per unit per person).(This message has been edited by acco40)

[NJCubScouter]

From what I have seen, different units have different "customs" on whether Committee Members ("MC") (which is what you presumably are registered as) wear uniforms. In the troop for which I am a MC, I have seen almost all of the MC's in uniform at one time or another at troop meetings, but it seems to be a matter of whether the mood strikes during a particular week. I have not been wearing my uniform to troop meetings. I have been wearing it to Eagle Courts of Honor. Just as a random sample, last night the CC was wearing his uniform (actually still with his SM patch, which I wish he would change since he has not been SM since March), and the four or five others (including me) were not, but I have seen it where more than half the committee members were wearing it.

 

You might ask the Committee Chair whether and when she wears a uniform, and follow her lead if that is what you are comfortable with.

[CharityAK]

I really hoped not to get too deeply into the whys as I don't want to offend anyone. I am not comfortable with BSA female adult leadership in public leadership or regular, direct involvement with the boys. I don't have a problem with the supportive, behind-the-scene roles. I feel that one of the historical strengths of BSA has been its strong male presence in boys lives - though I know in today's current PC climate this is heresy.

 

Only the SM and the ASM in our troop have worn uniforms in the past. I feel uncomfortable "posing" as one of them. I'd prefer to remain "just a Mom helping out". However...if the SM wants to change this and start having all Committee members and leadership positions start wearing uniforms, I will comply with his wishes. I just wondered what the norm was and if my desire to remain "anonymous" was appropriate.

 

I have no problem with the uniform in and of itself. I'm proud of the BSA program and have no qualms with being associated with it. I don't think it's really an issue of role-modeling for hte boys as no one besides the SM/ASM wear uniforms. If anything, they will think it odds and perhaps even intrusive if I start to wear them. Like I'm a SM wanna-be.

 

Charity

[Scoutmaster Ron]

Would it hur to wear the uniform for 20 minutes?

[Fat Old Guy]

"Two, for boy scouts, I do not believe there is a female blouse"

 

You better believe there is or you might accidentally buy one. It looks pretty much like the men's shirt but is cut differently and buttons backwards.

 

 

[Laurie]

Well, those buttons may be backwards to you, FOG, but they sure work fine for me

 

I happen to like having a Boy Scout uniform, would prefer the yellow blouse, but opted against it for 2 reasons: I can't use it when I move on to the troop, and I'm told it isn't easy to get (I tried 4 Scout shops, so I found that to be true). Do check the tan shirts, for FOG is right about the cut and the buttons. Another way to tell is that the label actually states "BSA Official Ladies Blouse". When my boys told me I couldn't wear a Boy Scout shirt, I showed them the label

 

Now, that said, my personal reasons for not liking to wear the uniform are that I'm overweight so it looks bad, and that it's expensive, so that's why I have the shirt and insignia now, but still need to add the rest.

 

The ladies may wear the man's shirt, and I'm told it is much more comfortable. Plus, if you don't tell a boy it was worn by a woman, you can pass it on eventually--something I didn't think to do since I'm determined my shirt will soon be too large.

 

Now to answer the original question: if you go on outings, you will find that often the uniform is mandatory. That seems to vary from council to council. I was asked to wear a uniform to training, and I was encouraged to get one when I said I didn't even had one.

[Bob58]

FOG & Laurie, you beat met to a GRAY AREA post. Nicely done.

[dancinfox]

I believe the one of the things that all unit leaders should do it set the example. In the troop I serve, I go to every meeting in full uniform with my troop neckerchief and troop slide on. I expect it of the Assistant Scoutmasters and any troop committee members that are at the meetings. I can't expect to tell the Scouts to be in full uniform unless the example is set.

Dancin

[Bob58]

A more serious reply than my first...

 

IMHO If you are going to sit on boards of review you owe the scout the courtesy of dressing for the occasion. We actually have quite a few parents who drop in when they drop off or come in early to catch the closing. Everyone stands for the closin, should we all be in uniform? (Pardon me while I season the foot I am about to place in my mouth....)

 

One of our Scouters who chaired many an Eagle BOR came directly from his law office and often wore his suit while convening the board. He remains an active Scouter and I have never heard anyone in the Scouting community comment upon it. There aren't to many activities that are more Scout related than that one. While I'm delighted to hear from or see President Bush at public functions (especially scout events) I'm always more comfortable when I see him accept a jacket or hat when he arrives on the stage (or flight deck.) I suppose that it has to do with accepting that there are times when BEING a Scout (or Commander in Chief) might be more important than looking the part.

 

Call me fickle -- give the Scouts credit they can understand levels of involvement. (That doesn't mean that they won't test US!)

Bob

 

[LauraT7]

Laurie - I'm a little overweight, too - and no one would call the uniforms flattering, but if you've ever been to a scout roundtable or adult training session - you would get an eyeful of the typical male scout leader - waistband of the scout pants lost low under a belly where the shirt buttons are straining to meet the buttonholes. the thread they use to sew those BSA uniforms rarely breaks - it's usually the fabric that gives up the fight first!

 

however - you have a good point - if you are female and can wear the male shirt - being able to pass it on to the troop uniform closet is a benefit - esp since many of the larger sizes are seldom available in a uniform closet. I know - I've been looking for a pair of size 14/16 pants for my son - and all we have are 8's and 10's. We have a couple of bigger ( football sized) boys who could REALLY use bigger shirts - yet their folks won't spring for them and the troop uniform box again, has nothing but small sizes.

 

But to Charity - i would say, in addition to providing a good example to the boys by wearing your uniform shirt with pride - you also identify yourself to the boys as being an essential part of the TEAM. You aren't 'just helping out' - ALL the adults that volunteer are necessary to the troops success - Where would the troop be without an Advancement Chair or a Treasurer? no awards and no activities? What message are you sending to the boys by making so little of your contribution to their troop? if you see your support role as so unimportant, and only the SM and ASM's as "important", the boys might see THEIR role as unimportant unless they are Pl or SPL - when EVERYONE on the team matters.

 

 

Wearing the uniform AND YOUR ADVANCEMENT CHAIR PATCH - and a name tag, if possible - makes it easier for parents and new scouts to know who you are and what your job is. In many of our troops, we are so familiar with the faces and names, we forget that parents don't always know or understand who has what position. For the newer kids, it's worse - they often don't know the difference between the SM and an ASM and a Committte member - all the adults kind of blur together until they've been with the troop long enough to sort them out. With adults on the committee, I've seen boys take a year or more to sort them out - longer if the adult is not really active.

[blade1158]

CharityAK,

at the risk of sounding like a knuckle dragging neanderthal, I agree with your assessment of the female role in scouting and respect your desire to serve behind the scenes. Just because you work behind the lines doesn't mean that your contribution isn't of immense value.

 

When I was a boy my troop was served by quite a few women who did wonderful work for the troop and the boys. Now that I am an assisstant scoutmaster, we have a new group of great ladies who do a tremendous amount of work for the troop who, like you, desire to remain behind the scenes. Of these ladies three regularly attend meetings in full uniform. Even as a card carrying neanderthal, I am thrilled that these women have made the commitment, and spent the money, to uniform themselves properly. All of our adult leadership, male and female, set the example. It shows the boys the commitment the adults have made and hopefully inspires them to make the same commitment. These ladies wear their uniforms not only to meetings but to boards of review, courts of honor and committee meetings as well.

 

Plus, I think it looks darn spiffy when we have 7 to 12 fully uniformed adults lined up at the weekly flag raising at the meeting. Again, it helps set an example.

 

I hope this info helps.

[frank10]

Wear it or not... could make a case for both. But if you do wear it, always wear it.

As CC if my scouts saw me in and out as I see fit they might start to think uniforms are optional for them too.

[Twocubdad]

First of all I would like to LOUDLY dispel the notion that whether or not or when one wears a uniform DOES NOT determine one's commitment to the program. And this is coming from someone who is pretty hard core about wearing his uniform.

 

One of the absolute best volunteers in our unit and district won't wear a uniform. She's popcorn chairman for the pack, troop and district; organizes and fills in as den leader for her husband about half the time; was co-chairman of our district Cub campout last fall and an assistant camp director at day camp; plans, organizes and shops for meals; and does just about anything else that needs doing. I don't even know what all she does for the troop, but I'm sure something similar. I wouldn't trade her for a dozen beaded, fruit-salad generals. But she absolutely will not wear a uniform. I don't know why becase I've never asked and really don't care. Anyone who wants to give her grief over the matter better be prepared to deal with me. I think I've made myself clear on that. (Deep breath)

 

Secondly, I think who wears a uniform has a lot to do with unit tradition, which I think is okay too. This isn't an official Pack policy (or even one we verbalize), but we sort of consider our den leaders and assistants and Cubmaster and assistants as the "officers" of the unit. All are expected to wear uniforms when working with the boys and to be trained. Our committee members are sort of looked at as the "enlisted men" and we don't expect training or uniforms of them. Heck, most aren't even registered. Their jobs are to chair specific activities or events and they come and go for the duration of their responsibilites. Only a handful of committee members serve for the full year. Is it really necessary that someone register, get trained and buy a uniform to be chair the Blue & Gold banquet or the Pinewood Derby?

 

I know troop committees operate differently, but isn't this distinction even more applicable there? Don't troop committees operate even further behind the scenes, supporting the decisions of the PLC?

 

(This message has been edited by Twocubdad)

[CharityAK]

Thanks to everyone for the input. Answering some of your questions/concerns.

 

Our troop has been a somewhat casual troop by a leader who was fantastic in his personal relationship with the boys, but didn't adhere religiously to policy. Not even all the leaders were always big on uniforms themselves until we gained an ASM who was more of a by-the-book guy (now the new SM) and who began to enforce a uniform rule. So the boys have thought absolutely nothing of me not being in uniform to date. It has not been an issue of a negative example. No adults have ever shown up at BOR or COH in uniform aside from the SM/ASM. Though it may be that the new SM will want to change that and if he does, of course, I'll support him in that.

 

I am Treasurer AND Advancement Officer because at the time our family joined the troop there was little parental help at all other than the wonderful Committee Chair who was doing everything all by herself. I took those two positions and believe me...the poor woman was still overbooked. I hate doing bookwork and have been lucky enough to find a parent among some new recruits willing to take over the Treasurer position for me. Just have to get them on as a check signer and get their adult leadership paperwork into the council office. My heart is really in advancement. This new SM is really gung ho and with a great new group of boys/parents at the crossover this troop is starting to shape up in terms of more closely following policy and greater parental involvement.

 

The Committee Chair has never worn a uniform - though if the new SM wants us to, I imagine she would - as would I.

 

As far as not valuing my contribution to the troop. I don't think my contribution can be measured by whether or not I wear a uniform. I am not being dismissive of what I bring to the troop. I KNOW how much value I have brought to this troop. The Committee Chair has constantly told me what a godsend I have been and the SM has similarly expressed his appreciation. I have developed a BOR guide, a COH checklist, an Advancement Guide for Parents, set up Troopmaster software, constantly scour thrift stores for uniforms and equipment, am working on developing the library and have various other projects in the works that I hope will improve troop quality. Since I became AO, the troop has had its two first Eagles. My "hang-up" if you want to call it one, is that I am an old-fashioned believer in traditional gender roles. I prefer male leadership and am personally reluctant to take on the leadership designation that for me conveys a position of authority.

 

HOWEVER...since the whole reason I'm volunteering is because I desire to be helpful and supportive to the leadership, I will willingly and cheerfully wear a uniform if the new SM wants things to go that direction. No problem. Thanks for your insight, experience and input. I have appreciated it very much. It seems the general consensus is that ALL adult leaders and committee members should wear uniforms. This is unusual for our area, but I will do whatever the new SM wishes. He hasn't specified that and I'll just flat out ask him what his intentions are.

 

Charity