What is your program about?”

[Rooster7]

What is your program about? I realize that title will receive the ire of Bob White, but I like to live dangerously. Of course, its not our program. But, how is it being implemented in your neck of woods?

 

In another thread, someone opined,

 

Why is it that something that builds so many different characters in our sons isn't that important?

 

Another Scouter lamented,

 

Why is Scouting the first activity to go?

 

Im sure there are many possible reasons. However, I have a pet peeve that Id like to address that I believe is strongly related to the previous questions. Does your pack or troop implement a Scouting program that glosses over God, country, and family? I believe many Scouters (and subsequently many Scouts) do not put much emphasis on the character building aspect of Scouting. Consequently, many parents never see the potential value in Scouting. These are some of the things that I have observed over the years:

 

Few Scoutmasters/Cubmasters encourage or make a big deal of the religious square knot.

Few discussions among Scouters and Scouts about how they should be interacting with others and how that interaction may change as one acquires a leadership position.

Very few activities designed to bring families together (i.e., a pack picnic and softball game something along those lines).

Many packs and troops open/close with a flag ceremony, which is fine But few open or close with a prayer.

When a prayer is offered, its very short and very generic, usually May the Great Scoutmaster be with you until we meet again variety.

Leadership does not encourage Scouts to talk about their religious faith, much less share spiritual thoughts.

When our countrys history is discussed (which is rare), the focus is always on the event itself. Few boys ever discuss the philosophical thought or moral conviction that inspired or served as a catalyst for the said event.

Many troops place a high emphasis on teaching leadership and camping skills, but character building seems to be taken for granted. All skills and competitions center on camping or leadership.

Scoutmaster minutes (which should be used to reinforce good character) come in spurts and are relatively rare (once every couple of months).

99% of skits are for fun a chance to be goofy. Rarely have I seen a skit written to provoke thought. Generally speaking, the leadership does not encourage a serious tone for anything but award ceremonies.

Many disciplinary issues (i.e., boys using their leadership position to lord over others, PG-13 swearing, poor chain of command, no escalating consequences, etc.) are ignored or played down.

 

My point is this If we claim to build strong character in boys, then the program needs to be more than just some group gatherings, an occasional JLT, and a monthly campout. As a parent, if my only concern was leadership and camping skills, I could recommend many troops. But if I want more, like a place where I know my son will gain valuable insight as to how a man should behave, there are very few troops that I could recommend.

 

The above examples are not without their exceptions. And, I am only speaking from my experience in the state of Maryland within my district. Obviously, in the national scope, I see a very small part of the pie. However, I do believe that more parents would embrace Scouting, if more packs/troops embraced the idea of character building as their primary goal. We have a thousand opportunities to teach boys about characterabout what it means to be a member of a familyabout what it means to be a patriotabout what it means to be a child of God. However, apparently (by what Ive seen), there are many who approach these opportunities with a ten-foot pole.

[Fat Old Guy]

For too many, Scouting is about advancement and retention and not about character building or citizenship.

 

Very few, out of the tens of thousands of Scouters, consider being a Scout or a Scouter a 24/7 thing. Scoutlike behavior is only required during Scout functions. So what if the kid was expelled from school for attacking a teacher, that's not our worry. Actually expect Scouts to do a good turn daily? Don't be ridiculous.

 

Being of good character has gone out of fashion in our society. Heck, look at our last president. Politicians are expected to be crooks and people are surprised when a business does the right thing, whatever that thing may be.

 

Recently a friend told me that I was unreasonable for punishing my son for lying to me about something since what he lied about wasn't that serious of an offense. I didn't care that much about my son'sthe transgression committed by the child who sprang from my loins (I can call them mine because they are attached to me), I cared about the lie.

 

We are becoming a godless country. Most don't want to admit the they believe in God and those that do usually become pests. We are saddled with these strange prayers to the Great Scoutmaster because we are afraid of offending anyone. Why? I wouldn't be offended if we had a mullah say a prayer at a meeting asking Allah, who speaks to the prophets, to bring peace and safety to the world. I wouldn't be offended if a Hindu said a prayer thanking one of his gods for creating the world and giving us food.

 

I could continue but I have an appointment.

 

 

[Laurie]

This past year was my first year with sons in the Cub Scout program, and one has bridged into the troop. I am still learning about the troop, but here's what we are planning for the pack and more importantly, the WHY of the planning.

 

By now, many of you know that I'm trying to learn the ropes and have a goal of helping to polish our program. The program is in place, but it has nothing that addressed God, very little that addresses country, and a confused understanding of how the family fits into the program...or maybe how the program fits into the family. To address family, we are doing the following: (1) telling the family that Cubs is a family program, that it is set up in such a way that families work together to help their sons meet the requirements--they don't know this; (2) planning one project or fun activity each month that involves the entire family--after our camping trip, the parents that went actually asked if we could do more things together; (3) encouraging parents to stay for pack meetings--they drop their kids off, but honestly, there's little incentive for them to stay right now. To show the families they are an important part of their son's success in Cubs, we are asking them to come forward as well as the boys to give a public thank you for their contributions this past summer. It was a great summer! We would like to continue that throughout the year, bringing attention not only to the Cubs, but also to the families.

 

We are adding short prayers to each opening. This is a big change, for in getting to know the den leaders, one told me he didn't think he should talk about God at all, not even in encouraging the boy to meet the "God requirement". Another seemed just plain stunned that I'd mention God in a Cub setting, and not too happy about it. When the meeting ended without my evangelizing anyone, I think it was clear that God can be a significant part of the program without it becoming a preaching time. Yet another thought the idea of a prayer was a good one, and the thought had never--in 12 years of leadership--occurred to him. So, a short prayer is a big step forward, and it brings attention to part of the program that is lacking.

 

As for country. Schools and families must not be discussing/teaching much about our country because boys don't know the name of the president or the Pledge of Allegiance. We are now doing something that we should have, but have not done: opening all den meetings with a flag ceremony. Additionally, we have put all patriotic holidays on the calender and will do some sort of observance, whether by den or by pack or out in the community. One other goal I have put before our committee is to promote reading. The majority of the boys have difficulty reading, and so, to support what they are doing in school, I'd like to see the pack work with the school in promoting reading and rewarding the boys for doing so. Next year, perhaps we can focus on math, and then alternate. The idea is to take what the boys have to do and to help them see that it is not only important for school, but that it is fun and rewarding outside of school as well.

 

I realize that nothing above is new or unique. It is to our pack though. And as parents hear about what our goals are, they are getting excited too. The key: communicating the what AND the why of whatever we do. Our focus has been on handing out awards at the Blue and Gold each year, and we have close to 100% of our Cubs advance in rank. Our focus is changing this year: help the boys to earn the rank they are working on with the knowledge of what they are doing and why. Often, they coast along, doing everything in the den, and it's weak at best. Fun with a purpose is the phrase I've heard, and that is our goal. As wordy as this is, it's only the beginning, and I look forward to a great year with Cubs and their families

[acco40]

Any trained individual in Boy Scouts should be aware of the annual planning exercise. The first part of the exercise is what is commonly called "Do Your Homework." It entails getting resources together such as calendars, themes, advancement records, etc. and then listing the goals for the troop. As a SM, I usually do a lot of background work for the boys (very yougn troop, SPL just turned 13, etc.) such as getting the district calendar, school calendars, program features, advancement records, etc. The boys usually want to start right in and pencil in where they want to go (outing locations). No, no, no! First they ned to set the goals they have for the coming year (advancement?, service?, membership growth?, high adventure?, religious education?, citizenship?, fun?, etc.). Rarely do the boys choose religion or character building as one of their goals. In my view, character is best taught by the actions of the leaders (adult and youth). Not by telling the boys what you feel is right and wrong and how to act. Words are very hollow at this stage in a boys life. They respond to deeds, not words. That is one reason why many start to question their faith at this age.

 

Many confuse the methods of Scouting (outdoors, advancement) with the aims (character, citizenship, fitness). The goal of the BSA program is not to have a family camping club.

 

One has to be sneaky with the boys! Tell them they are going to walk nine miles with a weight on their backs to increase their physical fitness and they will laugh at you! Having them decide to backback through the glorious outdoors and spend the night in the middle of "nowhere" and they think it is grand!

 

Be reverent, don't preach. Treat the boys fairly, don't lecture about character. Over time, it may just sink in!

[Twocubdad]

I don't disagree with your basic premise, Rooster. However I would add that in addition to Faith and Citizenship there are 10 other core values to the program: Compassion, Cooperation, Courage, Health and Fitness, Honesty, Perserverance, Positive Attitude, Resourcefullness, Respect and Responsibility. Notice that they are in alphabetical order.

 

There needs to be a balance. Character isn't defined by faith and patriotism alone. How are you teaching compassion? What about courage? These values are more difficult to implement than a devotion or flag ceremony to open a pack meeting.

 

I think the first step is to talk about these 12 values at parent's night and with your leaders. The top sheet in our packet at our pack planning last month was a sheet with the mission, aims, methods and values of Scouting. It will be the first thing we give our parents at our orientation this weekend.

 

Of course I'm focusing on the Cub Scout program, since that's what I do and somewhat of a carry-over of the train of thought from the other thread. But substitute the 12 points of the Scout Law for the 12 values of Cub Scouting and the principle still applies.

[Rooster7]

TwoCubDad,

 

I agree. I never meant to imply that patriotism and reverence were the only two values worth discussing (although, I beleive a strong argument can be made that these two values will lead you to all others).

 

Words are very hollow at this stage in a boys life. They respond to deeds, not words.

 

Acco40,

 

I disagree. Deeds alone rarely tells the whole story. If we leave things unsaid, children don't know to believe. Personally, and please don't take offense (it's not aimed at you personnally), but I feel the "lead by example" mantra is an excuse to not do the real work - Talking to our children.

[Eagledad]

Hi All

 

>>I feel the "lead by example" mantra is an excuse to not do the real work - Talking to our children.

[hops_scout]

Laurie, they arent allowed to say stuff about the president... it would probably go against somebody's right:)

 

Oh, and dont you remember, they are trying to ban kids saying the pledge in school.

 

Oh, and I wanted to let you know(Wow, this is the perfect place for me to tell you:))

 

I will have something I consider special posted Thursday morning. Just getting excited thinking about it:)(This message has been edited by hops_scout)

[LauraT7]

sometimes i think our troop has MANY programs - there's MY program - which sorta goes along with their program - and then theres HER program, and HIS program - and hey - what about the BOY's program?

 

oh, yeah.

that's what we're here for - right?

 

Well we finally have a SM who is doggedly backing the boys and pushing the committee back in their proper place. right now, it seems to be his primary job to mediate between the committee who wants to control everything like they used to - and the boys, some of which are SLOWLY taking ownership back of THEIR troop. Sadly, some are just too young and immature - they don't WANT to lead - they just want to have fun and goof off.

 

We had election nominations last night, and the only nominees for SPL that accepted were the current SPL (this would be his third, non-consecutive term) and a boy who seldom makes meetings or outings and didn't even show up last night in a troop t-shirt, much less his uniform. (Plus - he was one of the instigators in our hazing incident at camp last summer.)

 

however, last saturday - under the leadership of the SPL and the support of the SM - we had our first ever yearly planning meeting where SOME of the boys came PREPARED!

 

together - they decided to adopt a uniform policy.

they brought information on things they wanted to do - and planned them.

they decided to initiate 'family outings' every other month - where parents and siblings are invited to join outings.

 

Best of all - in memory of our friend and ASM Scot Mansfield - who passed away this summer - the PLC proposed an annual "Honor campout' each year, funded by camperships given to the troop in Scot's memory. the Honor Campout will be all FUN, the adults will cook for the boys - and in order to attend each boy must earn points and pass the requirements EACH YEAR.

 

Requirement 1: know your knots, WITHOUT the book - Square knot, clove hitch, bowline and double half hitch. (Scot loved lashing and pioneeering)

 

requirement 2: complete any two requirements of the Astronomy Badge (Scot always did our star hikes and counseled Astronomy)

 

Requirement 3: Serve your faith with at least 2 hrs of service to your church or our CO church a year or earn your faith's religious emblem. (Scot was an active member of our CO church and often shared Native American hymns and stories)

 

REq 4: SHOW scout spirit - points are earned by showing spirit, participation and living the Scout Law and Oath. participate in meetings and events, and call your SM, ASM or patrol leader if you cannot attend a meeting or are going to be late

 

Req 5: Uniform policy - points given for proper uniforming according to new policy - incuding patches sewn on correctly and uniform in good repair.

 

Req 6: Show rank advancement within the year, or provide a special service or leadership to the troop. This can include attending JLT, BSA lifeguard, or other training in leadership or service.

 

_________

 

I think its a great plan - one that shows they DO want the program as promised - if only WE, as adults can SUPPORT THEM in achieving it, and not drown their ideas in trying to make it OUR game instead of theirs.

 

_________

 

that is very hard to do - as i was reminded once again by attending part of our committee meeting Monday nite - WHY I wanted OUT of the committee. -

 

once again, the committee wanted to pick apart and re-arrange and veto the plans the boys had made for the year.

 

I left after reporting my part. I've had enough of fighting with the committe. I think if I support the BOYS - in accomplishing the program THE BOYs choose - eventually the committee will just have to give in. After all - they aren't there for program time, they don't go on campouts, anyway.

 

 

 

 

[NJCubScouter]

Comments on a few of Rooster's observations:

 

Very few activities designed to bring families together (i.e., a pack picnic and softball game something along those lines).

 

This may be true for Boy Scout troops, I don't know. My son's troop (meaning he's a member) has had family picnics in past years, though this year they instead had a "family camping trip" including whitewater rafting. In reality it was not very different from a regular camping trip. However, when you say "pack," I would be surprised to learn that there are a lot of Cub Scout packs with no or few family-oriented activities. When my son was a Cub Scout, our pack (meaning we were both members)had a picnic every year and of course the Blue and Gold Dinner which was a family event, and really all monthly pack meetings are supposed to be family events as well. True, there are always some parents who drop the kid and go, but the pack leadership always encouraged them to stay and watch.

 

Many packs and troops open/close with a flag ceremony, which is fine But few open or close with a prayer.

When a prayer is offered, its very short and very generic, usually May the Great Scoutmaster be with you until we meet again variety.

 

This is true of my son's troop. The only prayer at the meeting is the last part of the closing, and it is indeed the "Scoutmaster's benediction." There are more elaborate invocations and benedictions at Eagle Courts of Honor (and I assume regular COH as well, though I have not been to one in this troop yet) either by the minister of the church that is the CO, or by the Eagle candidate's religious leader. These are usually somewhat generic as well. I think this is appropriate in a troop with a diverse religious population such as ours. Nobody feels "left out" with the Great Scoutmaster, whereas a more religiously specific prayer is going to leave someone out. When this has been discussed before in this forum, some have suggested "rotating" prayers, but in my opinion that means that everyone gets left out at one time or another. I think every troop needs to decide what it is comfortable with.

 

When our countrys history is discussed (which is rare), the focus is always on the event itself. Few boys ever discuss the philosophical thought or moral conviction that inspired or served as a catalyst for the said event.

 

If the event you are talking about is the American Revolution, I am not sure which thoughts and convictions you are referring to. Generally I think that people understand that the basic motivation was a desire of people to be free and to be in charge of their own destiny, and not live under a faraway ruler. I know that kids still learn this in school. I assume it is still part of the Citizenship in the Nation merit badge requirements, though I have not checked. If you are looking for something more elaborate and perhaps more historically accurate -- well, do you really want the Scouting program to include study of the intricacies of revolutionary philosophy? Or the theories of some historians that the Revolution was motivated more by economic interests than anything else? I don't know about that.

 

Many troops place a high emphasis on teaching leadership and camping skills, but character building seems to be taken for granted. All skills and competitions center on camping or leadership.

 

I think that all of the "aims" work together. I think that is how the whole Scouting program is designed, not so that you are doing character for this 30 minutes, fitness for the next 30 minutes and citizenship for the last 30, but that many activities involve some aspect of two or all three. Maybe we are viewing "character" differently. When a boy accomplishes something through his own knowledge and hard work, he is learning and practicing self-reliance, which builds character. When a boy combines his own knowledge and effort with those of others, he is learning and practicing all sorts of positive character traits, like cooperation, respect, teamwork. Leading, and following, build character as well. This is not the "Issues and Politics" board, but sometimes I think that some peoples' idea of "character" consists mostly of a list of "do's and don'ts," or more to the point, "don'ts." I think it is more than that, and Scouting activities by their nature build on that.

 

99% of skits are for fun a chance to be goofy. Rarely have I seen a skit written to provoke thought. Generally speaking, the leadership does not encourage a serious tone for anything but award ceremonies.

 

Your percentage is probably accurate. Most skits should be fun, that is their purpose. There wouldn't be anything wrong with asking that some fraction, say 10 percent, be thought provoking or inspiring in some way.

 

However, I do believe that more parents would embrace Scouting, if more packs/troops embraced the idea of character building as their primary goal.

 

It is a "co-primary" goal. If you really mean that it should be the primary goal, and build the program mostly around that, I am not sure that that is really Scouting. I think Scouting is a balance of the "aims." I also don't know how many parents would embrace. I really believe that the most important thing is that the boys embrace it, and the way to draw the boys in and keep them is, in the words of Baden-Powell (or at least I think that is who said it), "fun with a purpose." One without the other is not Scouting.

[OldGreyEagle]

Our troop has a policy that no patrol eats without saying grace, all chuck boxes have the graces on plastized sheet for reference. We could do better with prayers at meetings, although we once opened a Court of Honor with a recitation of the Byrds old song, Turn Turn Turn.

 

These are the words to the complete Scoutmaster Benediciton that I know:

 

May all Scouts be prepared to go...not only upon the earthly trail..but also upon the heavenly trail. Whether it be the earthly dawn or the twilight of old age. Til this end, may the Great Master of all Scouts, keep our hearts and minds til we meet again. Goodnight.

 

I remember this when I was a scout in the 60's and they repeat it often at our Districts Roundtable, I disagree that it is a strange prayer. I find this prayer especially appropriate for the troop I am with which has Christians, Jews and Hindu's,(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

[Rooster7]

EagleDad,

 

Never said that it shouldn't be boy run.

 

I don't have a problem with "lead by example". I have a problem with a "lead by example" attitude that precludes Scouters from having a discussion with the boys. While setting a good example should always be applauded, we shouldn't use it as an excuse to not have an open dialogue. They need to hear the reasoning behind our behavior. Otherwise, it may be interpreted at a very superficial level or even misinterpreted. Furthermore, strictly leading by example is dependent on circumstances and the availability of each boy in the troop to witness the said behavior.

 

In regard to the BSA mission statement -

 

"The mission of the Boy Scouts of America is to prepare young people to make ethical choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law."

 

I fail to see how my concern (i.e., too many troop's fail to emphasize charter building) contradicts the BSA mission statement. In fact, my concern is very consistent with the mission statement.

 

NJ,

 

Never said that fun should be abolished.

 

[NJCubScouter]

Rooster, what are some examples of things you think troops should be doing to "build character" that you do not think they are doing now?

[Rooster7]

For starters...

 

Regular Scoutmaster minutes dealing with issues of character (not just once every couple of months, but once every couple of weeks).

PLC discussions concerning disciplinary problems maybe a little root cause analysis, what caused the problem, who's behavior needs modifying, how can the boys help prevent such problems from reoccurring again, etc.

Stronger/Vocal encouragement for religious awards (i.e., God and Country).

Encourage the boys to discuss spiritual things and to debate political issues.

Encourage the boys to think about doing skits that provoke thought, not just to be goofy.

Encourage the boys to do presentations about our country's history.

Encourage heart-felt prayers, not just generic ones.

Encourage more troop activities that involve the entire family.

[OldGreyEagle]

Can someone tell me how to differentiate between a heartfelt prayer and a generic one?