Part of What Green Bar Bill believed

[skeptic]

From Nelson Block's short biography on Green Bar Bill. Our current pro's might take note, as well as ourselves.

 

"Throughout his work with the national office, Bill maintained his dogged effort to see that material was thoroughly researched, well-organized and invitingly presented. Boys and leaders must be taught Scoutcraft that worked. The national staff must set an example in living up to the standards they proposed others live by. Those who did not measure up were in for a discussion with Bill. Even if it was the Chief Scout Executive."

 

http://www.trussel.com/prehist/crump/hillcour.htm

[Kahuna]

Thanks for mentioning that. I was unable to find it earlier in a search for information about Bill. Good quote. We would all be better Scouters if we followed Bill's advice.

[desertrat77]

Priority on scoutcraft? Quality research, organization and presentation? National staff living up to the same standards? Holding people accountable--even the CSE?

 

How times have changed in the BSA...and not for the better.

 

Small wonder that GB Bill is persona non grata at the National Scouting Museum:

 

http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=319601&p=1

 

 

 

[Eagle92]

One of the guys I went through PDL-1 with was a "re-tread," someone who left professional scouting and returned. He was a hoot because he left Scouting to work for another non-profit that has/had a close relationship with BSA, and he seemed to know everyone at national because of the other non-profit and previous expereince.

 

Anyway, one of the things he talked about was when professional training was at Schiff and you camped during the entire time.

[desertrat77]

Eagle92, now that you mention it, you may recall the last page in the second edition of the Fieldbook...a photo of Schiff--majestic building, deep forest--and a well reasoned pitch to the reader to become a scouting professional. (I'm going from memory, I'm overseas and no access to my library.)

 

On of my treasured scout possessions is a Schiff training patch, given to me by a respected DE who went to Schiff for his prof training. He was in one of the last classes there. Great scouter, this DE, and he reminds me of the scouter you mentioned.

[Kahuna]

Eagle92 writes: "Anyway, one of the things he talked about was when professional training was at Schiff and you camped during the entire time."

 

Be very wary of anything else he told you because that is just not true. There never was a time when professionals camped during their training at Schiff. The JLITC boys did, the Woodbadgers did, but the professionals always stayed in the little houses built on the property. During my time at Schiff (1970), there was no professional camping at all. The NTS guys in the early days may have had a day or two, but they lived in buildings.

[Old_OX_Eagle83]

National is quite selective of what founding fathers, and key figures from scoutings history, they put on display these days. Not only has William Hillcourt's influance on the growing organization been downplayed, but Seaton is being swept under the rug, and Dan Beard trivilized. Without Beard and Seaton scouting would be of thing of the classroom, not the outdoors.

[Eagle732]

All in the effort to take the outing out of Scouting, again.

[TAHAWK]

Alas, Scouting is often a "thing of the classroom" in this lesser age.

 

And the literature is often an embarassment. It is as if they were writting in French (Scouting) but none of them speak or write (Scouting). So we get many badly-written materials that have internal inconsistencies and outright errors. And if one points out the "issues," however politely? You get silence, brush-offs, and no action. Feedback is NOT accepted as a gift. These are just not, taken as a group and with individual exceptions, particulaly impressive folks.

 

HERE . http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/BoyScouts/TrainingModules/Orientationfor NewBoyScoutParents.aspx is some text by someone with talent and understanding:

 

""In Boy Scouting, the role of the boys is to have fun activities and generate achievements.

 

The role of the adults is not [achieving] the destination, but [taking] the journey. That is, our responsibility as adults is to promote the 'process' of Scouting.

 

What is important for us [as adults in Scouting] is:

 

NOT the food on the campout, but that the boys cooked it.

NOT a sharp-looking flag ceremony, but that the boys put it together.

NOT who would make the best Patrol Leader [in our opinion], but that the boys elect one.

NOT that Johnny learns first aid, but that Billy teaches him.

NOT that we cover everything on the meeting agenda, but that the Senior Patrol Leader is in charge.

 

Our goal is not to get things done, but to create a safe and healthy environment with the training and resources that the Scouts need, and then let them do it.

 

It can be a very messy business, and painful to watch. Meetings where the boy leaders are in charge can be very chaotic. And it can be very tempting for adults to jump in and sort things out, because that is what adults do. But we have to remember that that is the process of Scouting. That is how they learn—even from disorganization and failure.

 

We just have to remember that our business as adults is not the same as the business of the boys. It is up to them to get things done. It is up to us to make sure they have what they need, but (within the bounds of health and safety) not what they do with it."

 

Imagine, the writter understood something about The Patrol Method. He (or she) may even understand about the necessity of separateness as part of the TPM - separate meetings, Scoutcraft instruction, hiking and camping -- spending more time in the patrol than in the troop.

 

Still looking for a current, coherent and complete statement of what constitutes The Patrol Method according the B.S.A. I have aked a good many volunteer and paid Scouters for help. A few were sure they could find it, not no one has done so to date. The piece parts are scattered here and there, but it nowhere seems to exist in a single statement.

 

In the meanwhile: "The patrol is the team that playes the game of Scouting. The troop is the league."

[SSScout]

Thank you for the link. Never would have found it on purpose. Perhaps there is hope for the BSA after all.

[SSScout]

Worked before test.

[Jeffrey H]

I have been to the National Scout Museum several times and have never seen Green Bar Bill mentioned or displayed. That just seems wierd and a shame. He must have really "hacked" off the wrong people.

[dgilmer]

 

I was fortunate to be a guest one evening in 1992 at the Murray BSA museum site. The dinner's guest of Honor was Green Bar Bill. Just 6 months before he died. I'll never forget that amazing evening with a spry 92 year old William Hillcourt.