scout racism?

[Horizon]

Rather than looking for the history showing that the Scouts were a mirror of their times, I would be interested in any stories of Troops that broke the barrier in advance of the general public.

 

Wouldn't it be great to instead be able to talk about Troops that integrated early?

[emb021]

"Rather than looking for the history showing that the Scouts were a mirror of their times, I would be interested in any stories of Troops that broke the barrier in advance of the general public."

 

Actually, in general, scouting DID.

 

Which is what the people attaching scouting don't realize.

 

 

Scouting was open to youth of all religions, at a time that this wasn't so in our general society. The Founder of APO was impressed by this and noted it in our founding information.

 

As a National organization, there were NO National policies barring blacks, or any other minorities. Any such policies were local policies. Same for various religious groups.

 

H. Roe Bartle, a long-time Scout Executive in Kansas City had to deal with an angry mob upset that he appointed a Catholic to the position of Commissioner (can you believe that). He faced them down and that ended it.

 

Early people within the BSA worked to help place Native American youth as "Indian Lore" counselors at scout camps. This included Charles Eastman, himself a Sioux Indian.

 

the BSA established a bureau to help bring scouting to negro and other minority youth early on (forerunner to the recent 'Scoutreach' group?).

 

Was there discrimination within scouting? Yes. We know of segregated camps, districts, troops. But was this due to National BSA policy, written or unwritten? No. It was due to local councils/units bowing to local 'behavior' (for lack of a better term).

 

 

 

[Kahuna]

"Rather than looking for the history showing that the Scouts were a mirror of their times, I would be interested in any stories of Troops that broke the barrier in advance of the general public."

 

The really nasty thing about history is that it is what it is. If you go back and read and understand history, you will be better prepared for the present. No need to go and look for things that make it appear rosier and happier than they were.

 

What good came from the Spanish Inquisition? (Apart from a great skit on Monty Python!). It stands as an example centuries later of what not to do to improve your religion or the world.

[Horizon]

Kahuna:

 

What I was interested in seeing was examples of the Scouts being ahead of the game. I am a graduate of Stanford University, where women were admitted from day 1 - long before other schools chose to go coed. I can hold that up as an example of my alma mater taking an early step towards equality, different from the actions of other universities.

 

The BSAs official openness to all religions is a great example of how Scouting was at least officially open.

 

My assumption is that a review of the past would show that the majority of BSA units reflected their communities in regards to integration. However, it would be great to find some stories of those units who first chose to break the color barrier (who is that Jackie Robinsonesque Eagle Scout from a white troop in other words).

 

I was watching a history of the evolvement of the black gangs of Los Angeles recently. An interviewee was discussing being in Scouting (reciting the Oath and Law on camera). He then described his Troop asking for a ride on the Goodyear Blimp. When they arrived, they were not allowed to take their ride, while white scouts were. He talked about limited options for camping, and other ways that they were set aside. He then sequed into how his Patrol evolved into a gang instead, looking for something to do. It was a tough story to listen to, realizing that the story could have gone the other way if that group of Scouts had been welcomed and embraced instead of made "separate but equal."

 

Now, this story is from one man, and is colored by time - but I am sure that it is not the only story out there. I would like to find the stories on the other side. When a white Scout stood by a black one. When a Scoutmaster said that Scouting was for all boys. When a camp welcomed Troops of all colors. That would be an inspirational Scoutmaster's minute, challenging the boys to not simply follow the societal movement and instead do what is right.

 

I am sure that there are stories like that out there, but I have not heard them.

[Kahuna]

Horizon, I'm sure you're right about some leaders and Scouts who were ahead of their time on the race thing. Since I grew up in the South, but was a military brat and went to integrated schools, I had a chance to see both sides.

 

In the South, however, during those days, very few black boys would have dared approach a white Scout troop and very few Scoutmasters, including me, would have been willing to open the Pandora's box of trying to integrate it. It was dangerous, for one thing. You could very easily find yourself picked up and taken for a ride by a carload of rednecks if you were perceived as pro-integration. There were, however, a lot white Scout leaders who worked in black Scout camps and with their troops, which was socially acceptable, although you were viewed as a bit eccentric if you did.

 

I'm just saying that reality is reality and we don't have to apologize or make it better. Having said that, I would enjoy hearing stories like you are talking about.

[scoutldr]

The Lone Scout program published a magazine for awhile and across the masthead it read, "The Real Boys' Magazine". After awhile, it was changed to "The White Boys' Magazine" (circa 1930's). You still see them from time to time on Ebay.

[emb021]

"The Lone Scout program published a magazine for awhile and across the masthead it read, "The Real Boys' Magazine". After awhile, it was changed to "The White Boys' Magazine" (circa 1930's)."

 

First off, you are not speaking about the "Lone Scout program" of the BSA, but the separate organization, the Lone Scouts of America. The LSA was established by William Boyce in 1920 and lasted as a separate and independent organization from the BSA until some time in the late 30s or so.

 

The magazine you are refering to was published by the LSA, NOT the BSA.

 

This matter was addressed in Mitch Reis' history of the Lone Scouts of America. Apparently the 'issue' of the LSA allowing non-whites was 'brought up' within the organization (by who, no idea; brought up to who, no idea) and it was decided (no idea by who) that it was 'in the best interests of the organization not to admit blacks' (or something to that affect, tho how they could control this as each lone scout was 'on their own' and turned in their info).

 

I find it strange that Boyce allowed this in light of the claim that when he incorporated the BSA, he wanted the BSA to be open to all youth (hear this claim, no idea if true).

 

[Scoutfish]

I think it would be misleading to say scouts were racist, The official sanctioning body may have been at one time, but scouts as a whole probably were not.

 

It's a tough thing you know. Kids tend to grow up reflecting and eventually believing and living their parents ideals.

I was never ever taught or shown to be racist, predjudiced or sexist. And I am proud to say I abhor that kinf of rationalization or thinking. But let me tell you: classmates, friends andd co workers can be racist sometimes. Everynow and then, it's limited to jokes and attemopts at humor. Sometimes it's the core values of an individual.

 

Be clear about one thing: Racism isn't limited to white people either.

 

So what was my point? There may have been packs and troops that blended races long before it was "ok" to do it. They may not have been trying to be the first, break any barriers or anything else. They simply might have just ben scouting. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Kahuna]

Actually, the Scouts themselves reflected the culture they were raised in. Scouts in the South in the early Sixties did not want to camp, eat or socialize with black kids. I'm sure there were some exceptions, but in general, they felt the same as their culture. That was the reason that the councils I was in during that time had separate camps, even though the camping season didn't overlap. The kids would not have wanted to use the same tents and bunks as the black kids. It sounds crazy, looking back on it, but that's the way it was. In fact, they used the same stuff, which was moved over to the other camp after the "white" camping season, but the kids didn't know that.

[emb021]

"I think it would be misleading to say scouts were racist, The official sanctioning body may have been at one time, but scouts as a whole probably were not."

 

Sorry, but I have no idea what you mean by "official sanctioning body". If you meant the National BSA org, it was NEVER officially racist. Racism, when it occurred, happened at the local levels in units, camps, and councils.

 

 

[le Voyageur]

 

Sad, but true. I own a collection of MB booklets from the Jim Crow era stamped "Gates County Negro Library". However, imho... I think the racism was also driven by economics, with Scouting principles tossed aside for the bucks. No DE of the Jim Crow era, with his job on the line would consider trolling minority populations who lived hand to mouth during this time to meet goals.

(This message has been edited by Le Voyageur)

[skeptic]

This is from the National Site some time back. There is also another on-line source I have seen, but have to track it down again.

 

July 31

*The Scout Oath . . . On my honor I will do my best; To do my duty to God and my country; and To obey the Scout Law; To help other people at all times; To keep myself physically strong, mentally awake, and morally straight. This date celebrates the founding of Americas first "Negro Boy Scout" troop in 1911. Initially started in Elizabeth City, North Carolina, opposition was encountered immediately, but troops continued to meet in increasing numbers. In 1916, the first official Council-promoted Negro Troop 75 in Louisville, Kentucky. By the next year there were four official Black troops in the area. By 1926 there were 248 all-Black troops, with a total of 4,923 Black scouts and within ten years there was only one Council in the entire South that refused to accept any Black troops. During this time as more troops started up, the Inter-racial Committee was established in January of 1927, with Stanley Harris as its leader. Also as part of the Boy Scouts of America (BSA) Inter-racial Service was "Program Outreach," a program that combined racial minorities with rural, poor, and handicapped boys. These programs were often ineffective, especially with immigrants who feared the BSA as a means to recruit for the Army. Another problem with Program Outreach was that it often didn't distinguish between the boys it viewed as "less chance" and those who were simply not white. For example, their reports states that about the Scouts in the Program who were considered, "Feeble-minded, Delinquency Areas, Orphanages, and Settlements." Many of the Scouts helped in these groups, who were considered "Delinquent Areas," were Blacks, who were measured as "Special Troops." Instead of embracing Black Scouting, the BSA systematically categorized Blacks. It brought a literal meaning to "racial handicap," as the color of their skin was why they were considered "special." Scouting for minorities wasn't just confined to cities, Scouting in rural areas were also common. One of these programs was called "railroad scouting," where employees of the BSA would ride trains throughout the rural South, stopping at every town on the way to distribute information and encourage the formation of troops. This policy originated to cut down on railroad vandalism, and the BSA realized it was a great way to promote their organization. Also Native Americans were a large portion of the minority Scouts, and lived in settlements in rural areas. With the help of these programs, the two Southern Regions, Region V in Memphis and Region VI in Atlanta, had growth rates of 28.2% and 47.9%, respectively. With the terrible economic conditions in the South during the first half of the 20th century, and the fact that in 1937, 57.9% of Black Scouts were from these two regions. By the 1960's, with the industrialization of the South, the BSA shifted more towards urban expansion and improvement. In 1961 the Inter-Racial Service turned into the Urban Relationship Service, and added inner-city children of all races. William Murray, author of History of the Boy Scouts wrote, "Negro lads in the South and in the northern industrial centers were somewhat out of the stream of American boy life and needed special aid." The Inner-City Rural Program was also developed to expose rural Scouts to the city and vice versa, but was small in scope. Programs targeting gangs were unexpectedly successful, and in many cities as many as 25% of boys living in housing projects were enrolled in the Scouts, many former gang members. In the South, with the "separate but equal" mindset of the times, Black troops were not treated equally. They were often not allowed to wear scout uniforms, and had exceedingly smaller budgets to work with and insufficient facilities. The BSA on a national level was often defensive about their stance on segregation. "The Boy Scouts of America] never drew the color line, but the movement stayed in step with the prevailing mores." Even so, there was only one integrated troop before 1954 in the Deep South compared to the frequent occurrence of integration in the North. Also the Scouts in the South did not support social agencies that were allies of the BSA. The YMCA was historically one of the BSA's strongest supporters, but in Richmond, Virginia, Blacks were not allowed to use the Y's facilities to earn merit badges, specifically for swimming. While nationally the BSA has a large endowment (approximately 2.6 billion dollars), local councils have to raise money on their own. BSA is not a non-profit organization, and if local councils had pushed for integrated troops, it would not have gone over well with the general public, and it would be difficult for them to raise money. It would have been dangerous, because the Ku Klux Klan had strongly denounced the Scouts for even having segregated Black troops. They claimed the BSA was a puppet of the Catholic Church, and it was not unheard of for Scout Jamborees and rallies to be broken up, often violently, by the Klan. After the Civil Rights Act, slowly, troops began to integrate throughout the nation, even in the South. Currently several troops remain all Black. After integration, many segregated Black organizations, especially Churches, remained segregated, not by law but by choice. It provided a heightened sense of community and unity that complemented their internal needs. If they made it this far under such extreme oppression, why should they happily submit themselves to white Churches and social clubs? Since these organizations sponsored such a large number of Scout troops, many remained all Black by choice. In 1974, after fifty-three years of segregation, the Old Hickory Council (North Carolina) and BSA councils throughout the South started to integrate troops. As an organization dedicated to developing morally strong and virtuous men out of boys, the BSA stresses the importance of understanding what it means to be a Scout. When applying for the Eagle Scout Award, the highest rank in Scouting, applicants must submit an essay along with documentation of their earned merit badges. In the essays, Scouts are asked, "In your own words, describe what it would mean to you to become an Eagle Scout." Essay lengths differ greatly, from one sentence to four handwritten pages. Generally, Eagle Award applicants write about what it has meant to work several years to receive this award, and what they plan on doing after the receive it. In the responses immediately following integration, different values and goals emerge based on race and oppression. One young man says, "When applying for a job or trying to enter college being an Eagle Scout is a great advantage." Being white in Winston-Salem, opportunities to go to college and to get a good job were there As a Black young person, such opportunities did not always exist, and instead of mentioning college and a job, there was a tendency to make more references to the army and military. Not necessarily saying outright that a future in the military is what they are striving for, but there are references like, "[if I get my Eagle Award] it will be like an army that had won a war, there will be great joy," and, "becoming an Eagle Scout is like being a Captain or lieutenant in an army, working towards the Generals position." Historically, the military has been one of the few ways Blacks achieved distinction and reverence. These youths had seen their fathers and uncles come back from World War II and the Korean War, with medals and the help of the G.I. Bill. Many saw this as their only way to eventually get into college or have a good career. With the aid of the civil rights movement, Black Scouts saw the Eagle Award is a further means of proving their dignity and achievement. Blacks in the first half of the twentieth century were not allowed much dignity. America and the South, was set up to make sure this dignity was never achieved. Through Scouting, Black young people finally had something to be proud of, something that would make them, in at least one realm, equal or even superior to white children. It gave them a sense of identity that was lacking for centuries, they were no longer just "Boy," they were an Eagle Scout. Before de-segregation, in nearly all white Eagle Scout applications, the essays included references to leadership opportunities to come out of their Award. Leadership is mentioned much less often among the Black applicants, having not seen the same opportunities for leadership in their communities as they progressed through the Scouts. Another theme among the pre-civil rights applications was the frequent mentioning of God and Church in the white applications, compared to the Black applications. The white applications tended to connect God and Country together as an important trait of an Eagle Scout; example. "The Eagle award would show me that I have been doing my duty to God and my Country as a Scout." The Black Scouts did not mention citizenship nearly as often and usually in a secular manner. "I am an American on whom the future of this wonderful Country dependslearning to be of service to others." This distinction was due to the lack of citizenship experienced by Blacks as long as we've been in this country. It is telling that an organization like the Boy Scouts of America, dedicated from its inception to raising men of high moral strength and conviction, supported racism. But at the same time, on a national and local level, the Scouts did have certain leaders that pressed against the grain of society for racial change. In the end, though, our most valuable insight is into the minds of these young black men who wrote of an equal chance for distinction and success in their Eagle Award essays. This relatively small achievement may have helped and inspired them to push on in their fight for liberty. Contributing reference: Kurt Banas, Wake Forest University Winston-Salem, North Carolina

 

[packsaddle]

Wow, Kahuna I have to wonder if we might have lived in the same neighborhood! "There were, however, a lot white Scout leaders who worked in black Scout camps and with their troops, which was socially acceptable, although you were viewed as a bit eccentric if you did." Agreed, and this is similar to the rest of the few white folks who mixed in with the black community. I attended plenty of weddings and funerals with my mother. But church and reunions were one thing - I note that it didn't work the other way. While society tolerated whites integrating into some of black society, the barrier was solid against blacks integrating into white society. Whites were freer to cross, blacks weren't.

 

I also agree with le Voyageur's characterization of the reality in regard to his example of the DE. In my experience BSA was not actively racist but it also did not present a challenge to segregation.

And thanks to Skeptic who found that really interesting piece in the archives somewhere.

 

I close by noting that while I acknowledge progress since I was a boy in the South, this recent event brought a lot of those times flooding back into my mind:

http://www.thegrio.com/2009/11/kkk-rally-briefly-before-lsu-ole-miss-game.php

It's still there, festering beneath the surface.

[Kahuna]

That's amazing, but it's interesting to note the hecklers apparently far outnumbered the Klan people.

 

"The Klan said it was protesting over lost Southern symbolism at Ole Miss, which has been rocked by racial strife before."

 

Boy, has it. I was a student there in 1962 when James Meredith was enrolled. That was unbelievable.

 

Incidentally, in my research I noted that the National Capital Area Council was among the first to deal with "colored Scouts" in a meaningful way. The council had hired a Black professional before WWII. Like everywhere else, the Scouts were segregated in units and camps, but they had a very high percentage of Eagles and had their own camp from an early date.

[packsaddle]

Kahuna, I can only imagine. I HAVE seen the bullet holes though.

Here's a quote from Shane Tate, the imperial klaxon (or something like that):

"We are coming to Ole Miss to say enough is enough on attacking our Christian, southern heritage and culture, and its time for every person to have a right to freedom of speech," Tate said.

"We arent coming there to cause problems or cause trouble," Tate said. "Trouble has already been caused by a handful at Ole Miss, including the black student body president, who wants to shape Ole Miss into yet another liberal sodomite college."

 

Wow, what could anyone possibly add to that?