Looking for information about Scouts during WWII

[MDScoutMom]

Hello,

 

I am new here and this is my first post so a warm hello to all from Maryland! Anyway, I'll start out by saying my son is a 2nd Class Scout working hard on his 1st Class. Also, along with my husband and I he is a living historian (aka reenactor) and we portray the WWII period. It was his idea to portray a Scout of the period, matching rank and badges (best as can) to those he has earned. We have been using this as well as part of our homeschool history class as it teaches him researching a topic (and one he likes!). He has a 1942 Scout handbook that has helped but he has many questions about the uniform that it can't answer. If anyone can help us, here are a few:

 

1. Shirt: In what year did the shirts stop having metal buttons that were attached by metal rings? Need to know if this is the wartime type or not.

2. Shirt: Again with the buttons. There are some shirts that appear to be wartime but despite BSA logo tag in the collar, the buttons are a domed (bakelite?) without any BSA markings on them - are THESE wartime?

3. I know 1943 saw the introduction of trousers, but from what I see in pictures the knickers remained pretty popular. Is this correct?

4. Stockings: What color were they and how long were they? Also, did the boys wear knee flashes with them to keep them up (I see this in many 1950's pictures)?

5. Stockings: Do you know of a source where I could find a pair or two? I have spent days scouring every sock in ebay with no luck.

6. Shoes: My father-in-law received his Eagle shortly before WWII (then went on to fight, great man). He tells me he remembers wearing ankle boots/brogans. Did they still during the war or did they wear shoes?

7. Does anyone have any suggestions for web sites or good books that may dedicated to the Scouts of WWII? My son wants to really be able to put up a display and tell people how important they were for the WWII effort.

8. Last, if he really gets this going, do any of you know if there is merit badge he apply for? That is not why he is doing it, I am just curious. I was thinking the Historic Trails Award?

 

Thanks so much in advance....absolutely ANY input would be appreciated. Especially if there are any WWII Scouts out there that can share stories. Thanks again.

[Miki101]

You should find a copy of "History of the Boy Scouts of America" by William D. Murray, 1937. It has the most and best info regarding this time period of service to the country.

[NWScouter]

Here is a good site for all sorts of BSA history:

 

http://www.boyscoutstuff.com/

 

A Meirit Badge that would cover what youre asking would be Collections

BTW Historic Trails Award is not in the avancement scheme but an award for completing or designing historic trail.(This message has been edited by nwscouter)

[shortridge]

Wow - that sounds like a really great project! Kudos and best wishes to your son.

 

With the centennial coming up next year, he might be in demand to speak to local groups, historical societies, etc., about Scouting history, both locally and internationally. Perhaps he could parlay that historical interest of his into a POR as troop Historian.

 

And once he hits the eligible age, he'll probably want to look around and check out any historical re-enactment Venturing Crews in your area.

[MDScoutMom]

Thanks, I will give him those links.

 

As for the Historic Trails Award, he is interested in achieving it along with interested troop members through the second option since it says "Cooperate with an adult group such as a historic society to restore and mark all or part of this trail or site. (This may be done during the hike or overnight camp.) Or cooperate with such a group to plan and stage a historic pageant, ceremony, or other public event related to this trail or site - such event should be large enough to merit coverage by the local press."

 

As reenactors, we camp out many times during the year at different events that get media coverage. He himself has already been in our community papers as well as in Gettysburg and Baltimore. He would like to share his love of history with his troop.

 

I really appreciate your help. Please, any help would be appreciated.

[MDScoutMom]

shortridge,

 

I will most certainly suggest the Troop Historian to him. Thanks.

 

As for joining a reenactment unit, we have joked that he is the youngest starting reenacter ever since I personally was out in the field portraying an 18th century soldier when I was pregnant (yeah, I know that sounds weird, LOL). So he tasted black powder even before he was born and has been coming to and joining in with us since he was born. About 10.5 yrs old we were able to get him in a midshipman's uniform and from then on he has been uniformed at events. He loves to interact with the public and let them know about history for his age. He is now 12.

 

Getting WWII Scout items is not easy, I keep getting sniped on ebay and I can find the socks nowhere. Thank goodness for the 1942 Handbook For Boys that he now has.

[JFL49]

Mitch Reis offers a number of resources. His books are very readable.

 

http://mitchreis.com/bsabooks.htm

 

Good luck in your search.

[Kahuna]

Welcome, MDscoutmom. I can answer a few of your questions with some authority. I have a couple of knicker uniforms from the late thirties and early forties and have done a lot of research on Scout history.

 

3. I know 1943 saw the introduction of trousers, but from what I see in pictures the knickers remained pretty popular. Is this correct?

 

Knickers did remain popular until after WWII. I think cost and availability were factors. They also wore shorts at camp.

 

4. Stockings: What color were they and how long were they? Also, did the boys wear knee flashes with them to keep them up (I see this in many 1950's pictures)?

 

The stockings were a sort of greenish khaki, but after multiple washings, they were just khaki. Flashes were not worn until some time after the war. I bought my first pair of shorts and stockings in 1961 and they had garters and flashes. I don't know what they used for garters, but garters were pretty common for men and boys, so maybe they used what they had. Kids wore knickers to school until maybe 1948.

 

 

5. Stockings: Do you know of a source where I could find a pair or two? I have spent days scouring every sock in ebay with no luck.

 

I lucked into a couple of pair about 30 years ago. They do show up on eBay, but not often. I don't know how to guide you on that. One option you could try is Scottish wear dealers. Scots wear stockings almost identical to the old BSA ones with kilts. The problem you would have is color. Perhaps the Highland military stockings? I can send you a picture of the stockings if you want to email me privately.

 

6. Shoes: My father-in-law received his Eagle shortly before WWII (then went on to fight, great man). He tells me he remembers wearing ankle boots/brogans. Did they still during the war or did they wear shoes?

 

From looking at many pictures of Scouts during this era, I've seen everything from sneakers to boots. I'm sure they wore what they had available.

 

Hope this helps. Good luck with your son's project. I think that's a great idea.

[SSScout]

American Heritage Merit Badge, check that.

 

I think your boy has a wonderful calling, and the doing of it will do him good.

If you can, locate " Matching Mountains with the Boy Scout Uniform" by Edward F. Reimer E.P. Dutton & Co. 1929. Lots of color pictures and diagrams and quotes from folks, famous and not so.

 

There was a Scout at the '05 Jamboree that was known for wearing vintage uniforms.

 

Don't forget the campaign hat. And stave.

[MDScoutMom]

JFL49,

Thanks very much for that link, I have bookmarked it and will show it to my son tomorrow. He is in bed, like I should be.

 

Kahuna,

Thanks for your answers. You won't believe my luck - we have an antique mall near us which we decided to just check out. Darned if they didn't have a full uniform (minus those hard to find socks!). It was worn by a Scout from before WWII to at least 1942, as there is a 1942 camper badge on the uniform. It came with shirt, 2 knickers, neckerchief, belt, campaign hat and personal items for the owner, including membership card, shoulder flash, and BSA diary. All of it for less than $200.

We scooped it up and he wore it to a WWII hanger dance we went to this evening. As luck would have it, my husband is Scottish by ancestry (wore kilt when we married) and had a pair of kilt hose for him to wear. They were a little too green, but he looked great. As usual, the press were more interested in his uniform than anyone that of anyone else, LOL!

I have ordered a pair of brown kilt hose after looking at the picture of the Scout in handbook.

 

SSScout,

I will tell him to check that merit badge with his Scoutmaster. I will also look at the requirements. As we homeschool our son, I commonly incorporate the Scouts into my teaching. For example, this year it was easy to design a Social Studies course: Citizenship in the Community, Nation & World badges do it perfectly. I'm sure American Citizenship would be good to be part of it as well.

 

And yes, he now has not 1 but 2 campaign hats. I think if he could he would have worn it to bed, he liked it so much!! Once he gets his patches sewed on good and obtains the hose (have to come from England), I'll have to take a picture and give a link to it!

 

Thanks again for your assistance and your well wishes to him.

[Mike F]

MDScoutMom,

This is awesome! Amazing vision and drive - I love it!

Look forward to links from your local news.

And have a feeling we may see you all at Centennial Jamboree next summer.

[Kahuna]

Wow, MDScoutMom, you do have the luck! That's great and the fact your husband wears highland dress is fantastic. Your son was meant to do this, I think.

[MDScoutMom]

Unfortunately, he will not be able to take part in the Centennial Jamboree. It was required for the Scout to have already achieved First Class rank to apply and he was just getting his Second Class at the time. He hopes to complete the camping requirements for his F.C. during his upcoming camp (Webelos Woods) and the following month. Lucky I don't have to eat his cooking, LOL, although his bacon seems to be popular. Since we only live in Maryland though his SM suggested that we may want to drive down to AP Hill for a few days just go see it - it is a once in a lifetime event. It will take some maneuvering though as his Troop will be going to summer camp during that time as well.

 

I thank you all for you comments and would ask you if you could suggest 1940's era merit badges for some he has earned but did not exist then:

1. Railroading - This didn't replace any other badge so I am not sure what he would "merit"?

2. Nature - Again, this didn't replace any discontinued badges but I thought maybe zoology would be good if I can find the badge.

 

Thanks.

[NC Scouter]

Not to hijack the thread but is MDScoutMom correct about the First Class requirement to apply to attend the Centennial Jamboree? My understanding is that scouts must be First Class by the time they attend, not when they apply. My son was Second Class back when he applied and was accepted without anyone questioning his rank. He has since earned the First Class rank.(This message has been edited by NC Scouter)

[SSScout]

Check http://www.bsajamboree.org/ and see the Scout requirements are FC and 12 year old before 1 July 2010. BUT some councils might tack on a time limit for applications to their Council provisonal Troops. I don't think there's anything like a "provisional" provisional Troop, gotta go thru the local Council.

Last time, 2005, there was a Silver Bay exhibit about the first "official" Scout camp, and Scout history in general. You might try to contact Irving and see if there will be a similar exhibit, mebbe couldbe perchance he could participate in that.