Turning Scouting into School

[Kudu]

AMulls writes:

 

Granted, I'm not up on my history of the Scout Oath, but I'm guessing it was around

looong before the Patrol Method went out of style...

 

AMulls is correct, turning Scouting into school was the original meaning of "mentally awake."

 

The YMCA was an early adapter of the new outdoor game for boys called "Scouting," created only 17 years after their own invention of the game of "basketball."

 

Remember, Baden-Powell first wrote Scouting for Boys as a pastime that could be played by already-existing youth organizations such as the UK's "Boys' Brigade" and the YMCA. They could adapt the game freely as they saw fit because there was no controlling authority or "headquarters," any more than for the game of "tag."

 

"The YMCA had been founded on June 6, 1844 in London, England, by George Williams. The original intention of the organization was to put Christian principles into practice. Young men who came to London for work were often living in squalid and unsafe conditions, and the YMCA was dedicated to replacing life on the streets with prayer and bible study. The YMCA idea, which began among evangelicals, was unusual because it crossed the rigid lines that separated all the different churches and social classes in England in those days. The YMCA used a holistic approach to individual and social development encompassing spiritual, intellectual and physical methods. This approach is symbolized by the inverse red triangle used by YMCAs around the world representing the YMCA mission of building a healthy body, mind, and spirit" (wikipedia.org).

 

You might recognize this YMCA foundational trinity ("healthy body, healthy mind, healthy spirit") as the three points ("physically strong, mentally awake, and morally straight") that the YMCA added to the three points of Baden-Powell's Promise (1. Duty to God & country; 2. To help other people at all times; 3. To obey the Scout Law).

 

The combination of these six points required the BSA to redefine its "three points" as 1) duty to God & Country, 2) duty to others, and 3) duty to self).

 

The YMCA shared with Baden-Powell both the target of meeting social need in the community ("To help other people at all times,") and the very radical (for its time) blurring of the rigid lines that separated social classes (as in B-P's wording for the fourth Scout Law: "A Scout is a friend to all, and a brother to every other Scout, no mater to what social class the other belongs").

 

Where they differed was on "healthy mind" and the "Patrol System."

 

For Baden-Powell "healthy mind" was mental alertness, represented by the motto for his invention, the South African Constabulary: "Be Prepared."

 

When asked "be prepared for what?" he jokingly replied "oh, for any old thing!"

 

He advised that in whatever situation you find yourself, always look around and note, "What can go wrong here?".

 

In his military reconnaissance book, Aids to Scouting, B-P developed mental preparedness through training games. These observation games have been eliminated from our requirements, but the BSA once included his signaling, tracking, and the one requirement that my dad remembered 75 years later "describe satisfactorily the contents of one store window out of four observed for one minute each" ("Kim's Game").

 

In Boy Scouting, more advanced Scoutcraft skills were introduced in "Proficiency Badges," which B-P in turn had borrowed from Ernest Seton. See:

 

http://inquiry.net/advancement/coups/degrees/index.htm

 

Baden-Powell's Proficiency Badges were all a progression from the basic "hands on" skills learned in becoming a First Class Scout. They represented B-P's two spiritual approaches to Scouting: skills for Service to Others (such as first aid, etc) which he called "Practical Christianity" (the badges for which were worn on the left side of the Boy Scout uniform); and Scoutcraft skills which he called the "Religion of the Backwoods" (worn on the right side of the uniform). See:

 

http://inquiry.net/uniforms/traditional/placement.htm

 

http://inquiry.net/ideals/b-p/backwoods.htm

 

As the name implies, a Scout could only wear the badges for which he was currently "proficient," re-certified on a regular basis by outside experts or agencies. A King's Scout was required to surrender his badge if he did not renew all of his Proficiency Badges on a regular basis (no "Once an Eagle, Always an Eagle")!

 

Baden-Powell made a very sharp distinction between Scouting's strictly hands-on ("boy-friendly") form of learning which he called "education," and its exact opposite (schoolwork), which he defined as "instruction."

 

For an example of the benefits of Scouting "education" as opposed to church school "instruction" in the development of reverence, see:

 

http://inquiry.net/traditional/b-p/scoutmastership/service.htm

 

The YMCA approach to "healthy mind," however, was educational instruction. The YMCA created many colleges and universities, but more relevant to our "Merit Badges" was the YMCA's pioneering of the concept of night school, providing academic self-improvement opportunities for people with full-time employment.

 

Many boys involved in Scouting in 1910 had already quit school to earn a living, so perhaps B-P's Proficiency Badge system could be replaced with the YMCA's educational model. The central concept of "current Proficiency" was discarded (once you earned a badge you were done with it), existing badges became more bookish, the "Aims" of the game were translated into school work (Citizenship Merit Badges, for instance), and a whole new class of "night school" vocational badges were introduced through which a Scout could be introduced to potential occupations.

 

AMulls, I'm sure that you applaud this as "doing things we don't want to do in order to better ourselves." As you write, "It also means being a good person and citizen. Those "homework" MBs that most scouts dread, do accomplish this. And, as I highlighted above, also help them to keep mentally awake."

 

But the problem facing the YMCA in 1909 was identical to the problem facing the BSA in 2009!

 

As you may have heard, the current Chief Scout Executive wants to de-emphasize camping and instead extend soccer from Cub Scouts into the Boy Scout program.

 

But word gets around pretty quickly. Why let adults force you to do things you absolutely dread, if a free market exists that allows groups to play the game the way it is played in the rest of the world?

 

How can the BSA turn soccer into school if NONE of the competing soccer associations force boys into classroom work, office manager school, and job interviews called "boards of review"?

 

The answer in one word: "Monopoly"!

 

In 1909 Scouting was very popular, just as soccer is now. Countless unaffiliated Patrols and Troops sprung up all over the United States, plus six (6) budding national Scouting associations including publisher William R. Hearst's "American Boy Scout" (later the "United States Boy Scout"); publisher William D. Boyce's "Boy Scouts of America," the National Highway Protection Association's "Boy Scouts of the United States;" "The Peace Scouts of California;" the "National Scouts of America," formed by a military school in Manlius, NY, and, of course, "The YMCA Scouts".

 

The YMCA Scouts were well positioned to turn Scouting into school because of their already-existing infrastructure, including "bricks and mortar" centers staffed by trained experts on adult-led "boy work."

 

However, the YMCA in those days was evangelical Protestant and this would be problematic in establishing a united national monopoly of Scouting.

 

According to legend, William D. Boyce had not even heard of Boy Scouting until his chance encounter with an "Unknown Scout" in the London fog. He had incorporated the Boy Scouts of America in February, but by April he had already decided it was a mistake.

 

So on May 3rd, 1910, Edgar M. Robinson (Senior Secretary of the YMCA's "Committee on Boys' Work"), and J. A. Van Dis (Boy's Work Secretary of the State YMCA of Michigan), approached Boyce to suggest their cooperation in building a national monopoly of Scouting in the United States:

 

"They explained to him the Scouting situation, as it then existed; that various groups and individuals in different parts of the country were aspiring to national leadership, and that some of these were more desirable than others (William Murray, The History of the Boy Scouts of America, BSA, New York, 1937).

 

"Mr. Boyce told them of the efforts he had made and the money he had spent in trying to promote the Scout Movement and that he had been bitterly disappointed in the results."

 

Robinson persuaded Boyce to appoint him managing director of the BSA, and the rest, as they say, is history

 

Kudu

(This message has been edited by Kudu)

[Kahuna]

Kudu,

 

Excellent summary there and on the other thread. I don't necessarily agree with all your conclusions, but your basic premise, that the BSA completely changed B-P's program into something else is indisputable.

 

BTW, Bill Hillcourt was sort of eased out of the mainstream of Scouting in the Sixties while he wrote his book. He was allowed to come out to Schiff to talk about Scouting history and that was about it. Later on, the BSA realized they had gone too far and let him write another Scout Handbook. However, by the end of his life I think he saw that the BSA was going in a different direction than he ever envisioned.

 

I'm not terribly optimistic about the future of Scouting, but I am hopeful.

[Nike]

I get so frustrated with "Write a report." I believe that the vast majority of MB req's should be hands on activities, demonstrations, etc. The only writing should be in the form of observations.

[desertrat77]

Kudo,

 

I've got to mull over many of your notes, but I agree that scouting has drifted from its roots.

 

When I crossed into boy scouts in 74, it was the dawn of New Scouting...a misguided attempt by National to make scouting more cool...and any time an institution tries to be hip, watch out!

 

If you look at handbooks and other literature from that era, it would appear that the baby, the tub, and bathwater were thrown out. Everything seemed to change, and I remember the old timers were not happy.

 

So the tough old uniforms were gone, and I wore the plain poorly made green ones...after a few washes, they were about as strong as pajamas. We had the red beret, which generated lots of discussion, for good or ill.

 

A true symbol of change was the fact that camping MB was not required for Eagle...I still have mine, and it doesn't have the silver/required for Eagle ring around it.

 

So the point of all my ramblings:

 

As I look back on the changes in scouting (name the decade), I am encouraged by one thing:

 

The heart of scouting is at the troop, pack, ship, crew level. National can change it's philosphical direction, or the uniform, whathaveyou, and true scouting still clicks along at the unit level.

 

Even in the weird 70s, with field skills not being emphasized for a few years, the scoutmasters continued to instill old-school scouting principles...campcraft, patrol method, safety in the field, pioneering, etc.

 

I'd like to make one distiction: I'm not for breaking rules. For example, though I may disagree with an official position or rule personally, it's not my call and I obey the rule, and enforce it. And I keep my opinion to myself (except here).

 

But just because National doesn't emphasize a particular school of thought from the past, it doesn't mean that troops can't still use it (provided it's not a safety issue or a "thou shalt not.")

 

And as you've seen, scouting goes thru cycles. My original scout handbook, early 70s, wasn't big on scoutcraft. But my second one, circa 1980, written with the help of the freshly re-discovered Greenbar Bill, is sublime. It was an unspoken acknowledgement (to me any way) that scouting's original roots were still important.

 

If the spirit of scouting surivived the funky '70's, it can survive just about any darned thing!

 

 

[Twocubdad]

"The heart of scouting is at the troop, pack, ship, crew level. National can change it's philosphical direction, or the uniform, whathaveyou, and true scouting still clicks along at the unit level. "

 

That needs to be engraved somewhere, man. Seriously. One thing I always tell my junior leaders is that when you are a leader it's always good to turn around occasionally and see if anyone is following. National could take that advice.

 

Good thread, Kudu. I appreciate your historical perspectives, especially when presented in this context.

 

[Eagle92]

Well the new handbook comes out in June. Supposedly sections from previous editions are placed back into the HB so that it is truly a 'centennial' edition. I hope they bring back some of the artwork, the basic scouting skills, and some of the 'romance" of scouting, i.e. the codes of chilvarly (sp) the Athenians, etc.

[Buffalo Skipper]

One point which may have been missed here (Kudu danced around it, but--unless I missed it-- didn't state it flat out), is that BP viewed his patrol method as a new means of education, but one which took place outside the classroom.  Remember that BP's invention of the word "Scoutmaster" is in fact derived from the British "Schoolmaster," or as we in the US say, teacher.

In fact Added to Kudu's reflection of the YMCA, history and organization, and the realization of what society was like after the turn of the century, really puts a new (and relevant) spin on the history of scouting.

Thanks for the good insight on this thread.

[Mafaking]

 

 

Interesting.

 

The citizenship MB are the worst. History assignments each.

 

But I am not sure there is anything I can do with information. I am obliged to follow the policies of my charter which require me to implement the BSA program as written.

 

Funny I think the venturing program with its de-emphasis on ranks and wards is more in line with traditional scouting goals. Go out have fun and learn from each other. I'll say that a Ranger award in our council is rare. Maybe a few a year. And Cub Scouting with its separate den meetings is more of patrol system and better suited for individual group planning meeting for their own outings is closer to the patrol method. An old PL handbook I have has routine patrol meetings at 90 minutes. Do you have patrols meeting 90 x 3 a month?

 

The middle ground is where the BSA school is.

 

Finally I see the name scoutmaster more closely aligned with Headmaster. The headmaster is the school's primary decision maker. Even though there is a committee with a chair above him. The headmaster is the chief officer of the school.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[OldGreyEagle]

"The heart of scouting is at the troop, pack, ship, crew level. National can change it's philosphical direction, or the uniform, whathaveyou, and true scouting still clicks along at the unit level."

 

Well actually, I would like to edit the above statment. First, I understand what Dessertrat is saying, but still, I have to say that the heart of scouting is not at the troop, ship, crew or pack level. It is at the patrol or den level. Its doing things at the gang/patrol/den level that scouting spirit thrives. Learning, teaching, exploring nature, life just being with the bestest buddies you will ever have is the heart of scouting. Being responsible, not because a bunch of old farty men demand it, but because your patrol is counting on you is a huge lesson in life.

 

The rest is just dressing

 

PS, I am not all that sure that the Patrol Method has gone out of style(This message has been edited by oldgreyeagle)

[MDScoutMom]

Well, I have done just that....Scouting into school.

 

I homeschool my son, so I use some of the merit badges for school work. For example, combining the three citizenship badges has made for a real good 7th grade Social Studies course and when we complete the course, that's three Eagle req's done!!

[Eagle92]

OK since this post is brought back, i am going ot make some comments since I last posted.

 

1) Yes I think the BSA needs more outdoor orientation, especially since I am seeing a decline in traditional scout skills. let's face it when only two patrols in an entire district can build, light, and boil water on a wood fire ( and one of the patrols did have guidance from the judges as they were a NSP) THERE IS A PROBLEM! You would think the most proficient scout skill these guys would have would be fire building

 

2) I am seeing a real need for the "paperwork" MBs: Personal Management, and the Cits. PM is a basic life skill, and more of the Scouts I for the MB do not know anything about finances.Yes I know that shouldn't be the case, but I do see the need. As for the Citizenship MBs, they are not learning this in the school system in my neck of the woods. So I do see the need for these as well.

 

3) agree more hands on and active than paperwork for any and all MBs.

[Kudu]

So, to summarize:

 

1) Trained volunteers can not even teach Scouts how to build a fire, a skill that most boys love.

 

2) We should build on this stunning failure of leadership skills and the "Learning EDGE," and drive boys away from Scouting with schoolwork, which Baden-Powell defined as the exact opposite of Scouting.

 

Our Chief Scout Executive's goal for 2010 is to recruit 100,000 boys who hate camping. Why not learn Spanish and force finance and classroom citizenship on them?

 

Yours in the Old School,

 

Kudu

 

[Eagle92]

Kudu,

 

WELCOME BACK! (yep I'm shouting at you, you've been missed)

 

As for your summary of my post

 

#1 You are correct.yep the scouts couldn't build a fire except for the NSP that were advised on what to do, and the judges hated to do that as it may have seemed unfair to other patrols, and the patrol that doesn't use stoves EXCEPT when the fire ban is on.

 

Thinking about it, the fire ban MAY have contributed to that lack of skill. For almost a continual 2 year there has been a ban. Yes there have been a few weekends when the ban is lifted, usally after a recent rain, but it has almost been conintuous. BUT I do knwo a few troops use nothing but stoves.

 

#2 Partially correct. I do see the need for for PM, CitComm, CitNat, and CitWorld MBs. BUT I would like to done differently. Patrol method is a great way to incorporate aspect of all four MBs. Also I think more action and less paperwork needs to be done. More action like going to several different meetings, taking a stance and writign to several officials, etc. As for PM MB, I think a lot of it should be applied via Patrol Method via budgeting and planning for meetings and trips. let's face it the patrol method is suppose to mirror real life is done properly, AND IT DOES ( CAPS FOR EMPHASIS)

 

As for the soccer and Scouting program, DON'T GET ME STARTED! (NOW I AM SCREAMING, BUT NOT AT YOU). You would think that BSA would have learned its lesson from the 1970s. I got TIGERS chomping at the bit to go camping and do outside activities. And now that Spring is here, we got a day hike planned for next weekend, a raingutter regatta for a meeting, a campout in April and one in May. Whiel the sumemr schedule isn't set in stone yet, it looks as if a good number will be attending Day Camp or resident camp, plus the normal outdoor activities the pack plans: 2 service projects over 3 weekends, baseball camping trip, pool party, etc.

 

Ok so it's not Boy Scout camping, but it IS getting them, and, more importantly, their parents, as I have found, in the outdoors, appreciating that vital element of ALL scouting programs the OUTING. IMHO if we can hook them into camping and the outdoors NOW, they will WANT to be Scouts and learn the traditional Scouting skills later.

 

Sorry for the long post, but it did hit a nerve. I truly believe that we MUST put the OUTING in ScOUTING. I do understand some, stressing SOME, elements of the advancement program like the Cits and PM, but think they need to be more HANDS ON and less paperwork and incorporated via the Patrol Method via elections, event budgets, shopping as a patrol, etc. I do believe the BSA is overcompensating and going overboard in some of the requirements, AND do believe that a strong OUTDOOR program will attract and maintain membership numbers and that the Soccer and Scoutign program is going to flop.

[Eagle92]

Ok I'm back and I've been thinking, yes a dangerous thing at times so here are my thoughts.

 

#1 Several of the SMs and ASMs of units that could not start the fires were involved in scouting during the Dark Ages of the 1970s. Yes taking the OUTING out of ScOUTING inthe 1970s is coming back to haunt us with "experienced" leaders with little outdoor experience. The judges were a little younger, in my generation of Scouting, which had GBB's last BSHB that did emphasize outdoor skills.So there is hope.

 

#2 A lot of the parents I am encountering in CS were never involved in Scouting as a youth, and don't have an appreciation of the outdoors as some of us who were involved do. WE NEED TO GET THEM AND THEIR SONS INVOLVED NOW. (CAPS FOR EMPHASIS).

 

#3 I know that Boy Scouts SHOULD be able to to go on an outdoor adventure under an capable PL with no adult leadership whatsoever, so you may be asking WHY do I want to involve parents. 2 reasons A)I am working on the Cub Scout Level and hence family camping and B) I believe that if the parents see their sons grow in the outdoors and their skills, they will see that their sons are capable of doing it on their own and will be comfortable with their sons going camping without them. EDITED: They should do their camping with their sons at the CS level. Once they are with the troop, the parents need to move away. back to original post.

 

Now grant you I will probably go camping with oldest when he moves into Scouts, but I plan on being 300+ yards away (when possible) in the leaders' campsite doing my "Al Bundy" impersonation and drinking coffee. Now I may teach an occasional advance outdoor skills session, with the invitation of the PLC of course, but I KNOW the scouts will be able to handle 99.99% of the instruction themselves, and will not need me often, if at all.

(This message has been edited by Eagle92)

[Stosh]

Scouting and Soccer? Why, if one is trying to run a completely different program, would anyone want to compete with something else? Not all boys are athletically inclined. I don't like soccer but I do like Scouting. If one wishes to make scouting more like soccer, I'd get involved in an already established soccer league.

 

The unique thing about Scouting is it's unique nature. I don't need leadership skills to be on the soccer team. That's why there's a coach. I don't need to be a leader in the school classroom, that's what the teacher is for. Same for church activities (pastor) and musical activities (director/conductor).

 

Scouting seems to be the only youth organization that relies on membership leadership development, unless the SM and other adults insist otherwise. No other youth program is designed where the youth are expected to "run the show".

 

The more we make Scouting like all other youth programs, the more we will need to compete for the youth's time. It isn't going to pan out well for Scouting in the long run because all these other programs already have a step up on Scouting.

 

Be prepared might just be a motto that Scouts recite every week at flag ceremonies, but is it a mantra of what the program is supposed to be designed to do?

 

If my Scouts haven't figured out what the Buddy System is after several years of Scouting, how can they understand what marriage is? If my Scouts haven't figured out what the Patrol Method is after their experience in Scouting, how can they understand what family is? These are leadership and maturation skills that are not effectively taught in the schools, churches or YMCA's and they are supposed to be intrinsically built into the program for the Scouts.

 

I view youth programs in just a few diverse ways. Programs that educate, programs that entertain, programs that offer unique experiences for maturation. Only Scouting provide for all these dynamics. Cramming for "finals" might do well in the education department, but lacks a lot in the entertainment area and maturation gets a hit for the last minute push to achieve. Soccer has a wee bit of education to learn the game and teamwork dynamics, but excels in entertainment. Maturation is optional.

 

I could go on forever evaluating all the different youth programs out there, but as far as I can tell, Scouting is the only complete package. I hope it stays that way and doesn't water itself down to be more competitive with programs of lesser overall value to the individual.

 

Just my thoughts, your mileage may vary.

 

Stosh

 

BTW, welcome back Kudu, I missed your input, it has gone a long way to shape my efforts in Scouting!(This message has been edited by jblake47)