Whose Troop is it?

[purcelce]

LOL never knew that people could get worked up over simple words like: my, mine, yours, ours.

 

Guess we'll have to settle this one with dictionaries at 10 paces....

[red feather]

Oh, my, my, my....have the teapot, saucer now where is that cup?

 

Guess semantics needs to be added to politics and religion.

 

Sorry for the levity, but I think a troop just IS and the members over the years that it exists have an ownership through responsibility for what is becomes or does during the time period that they are involved.

 

Yes there is a scenario where someone can try to 'own' a troop and thereby claim the accolades for it. But from what I have seen that scenario is few and far between and usually short lived.

 

The scouts are what are important and it is up to us to try to prevent the "My Troop" mentality in its worst conotation. At the same time understand that when I say my "my troop" it is only for the responsibility that I have during my tenure with it, for the boys that are there and the legacy that future boys are joining.

 

yis

[Twocubdad]

God, gays, girls and now grammar?

 

NJ, I thought you were going to make my point with the discussion of Bob's six sentences. Each was an example of a poor Scout leader who used the phrase "my troop." The point that I hoped you were making was that there isn't are causal relationship between the attitudes expressed by these guys and their use of "my troop." These guys are poor leaders regardless of how they refer to their unit.

 

There are many good Scouters out there representing (oops! can I say "representing") many good troops who proudly refer to the unit they serve as "my unit." I think it's clear from the majority of the posts here that most of us who refer to "my unit" or "my boys" do so in a loving, caring connotation.

[NWScouter]

I just look up my in my dictionary where it defined it as 'belonging to'. So I looked up belong, it was defined a few ways, one is owned by and another is being a member of. Most people understand when a person says my troop what is meant by its context, which is being a member. We all know people that belong to groups, be it Scout Troop, congregation, social club, etc., that feel that the do own the group they belong to. They show it by their unbending attitudes and refusal to admit that someone that disagrees with them, may have a point and there might be merit in their ideas.

[evmori]

Did the original question ever get answered?

[Fat Old Guy]

"Anyway, who should feel like they own the troop? The SPL? The PLC, Just whom/who? ( I never could sort that one out) "

 

Everyone who is actively involved with the troop. It is like your home that you own in Tenants by the Entirety with your wife, you own all of it and she own all of it. Neither of you do anything to the property without approval from the other owner.

[Bob White]

I would be interested in anyone finding anything in any resource available in the BSA that says the troop belongs to anyone other than the Charter Organization and the boys.

 

I will agree that over the years many (not all) adult leaders have "taken ownership" of the scout unit. It is not only obvious by the words they choose but by the degree of authority they exert over the troop. In a previous post some of my examples were brushed off as bad leadership and unrelated to the leaders use of terms like "my troop". What is being overlooked is the ability of language to affect attitude and for attitude to influence actions. One of the reasons they acted the way they did was there conviction that they were "In Charge" because they were convinced it was their troop. An opinion they reinforced whenever they said "my troop".

 

Reinforcing the attitude that this is "the troop I serve" as opposed to "my troop" will affect the way you lead in a very positive manner. This is not a unique practice, many other scouters in the US have this outlook on their role and it does make a difference.

 

It's a personal choice. What harm would it be if simply by being more conscious of your role in scouting it made for better scouting for boys?

 

Bob White

[mk9750]

Bob,

 

I've got to tell you I think you missed this one. Not that you're wrong, but that you're not seeing the issue from all sides.

 

As has been pointed out by many, speaking of a Troop (or any number of other examples used) COULD mean that the speaker believes he owns the Troop (or any number...). but he legitimately could be indicating simple association with that Troop. Surely, saying "my Troop" is not as clear as "the Troop with which I am associated", but it isn't incorrect, and it is much shorter.

 

You have said a few times that I am one of the people on this forum that "get it", and I am flattered that you feel that way. If that is a given, I think I have demonstrated that although I say "my Troop" quite often, I don't say it with negetive connotations attached. And If I can use that phrase without indicating I feel a sense of ownership of the Troop, I'm sure most of the others here can, too. I'll use one more anology. I often refer to this forum when I speak of it to other Scouters as "my Scouter forum". I can assure you I don't feel as though I own it now, nor do I believe I will ever feel that way. I am honored to be associated with it, just like my Troop. But I know my place - as a long winded poster, and nothing more.

 

Your comment about using "our" instead of "my" seems to make sense, except that it doesn't do enough to identify who "our" is. From the standpoint of accurately refecting the intend of the speaker, I don't think it is a wise use of the vocabulary available.

 

OGE,

 

I've metioned to you before how remarkably similiar or lives are. We've PM'd each other a couple of times talking about it. You want to know the next amazing coincidence? My wife is an MRI tech. X-Ray tech for 15 years, then when an MRI unit went in, she asked to be trained. Had the same kind of experience you describe: The Radiologists all fought here moving to MRI because no one did X-Rays as well as she, especially G.I. exams. Seems she had a knack for Barium. Eventually, she did move, and now all the Radiologists get ticked when she isn't the tech who did the image they are reading. It is frightening to think of all of the parallels you and I have discovered about each other!

 

Mark

[OldGreyEagle]

Where did you grow up again? Could we have been separated at birth? I have always hoped a roving band of gypsies grabbed me as an infant, that way I could understand my family a whole lot better, LOL

[Bob White]

Just for clarification MK "Our troop" was not my phrase. It was one offered by someone else that I said I prefered over "my".

 

The terms I was raised on were "the troop I serve", "the scouts I serve", "The troop's SPL". it is not my troop it is the Co's and the boys', They are not my scouts, they belong to their parents and the troop. He is not my SPL, I did not elect him and I am not a scout he serves.

 

I don't know of any leader who feels less connected to a unit by refering to the unit or themselves in this manner. If anything it reinforces their role with the unit.

 

I appreciate that this may be a new viewpoint for for many, and that not all misuse the term "my" but here is a way do distance yourself from those who do misuse it and to set a more positive example for others as a reminder of the adult's role with the troop.

 

It's a personal choice that I see makes for better leadership.

 

Bob White

[acco40]

Analogy: Professional sports team fans. Excluding Packer fans, many fans use the term "my team." They live their life vicariously through "their" team and in the case of the NFL, live and die a little each Sunday. When the team wins, it is most definitely "my team won" or "we won" but many times after a loss, "they lost."

 

I understand what Bob White is saying. Some adults do go overboard on their concept of "owning" the troop. This phenomena occurs much less in Packs. Packs are usually more decentralized than troops wrt adult leadership. (Funny, Packs are adult run, troop boy led, which one should have more of a reflection on the adults?). At summer camp one year the "troop that I served as an ASM" was awarded "Honor Troop." When the SPL was awarded the ribbon from the camp staff, he immediately waved it in front of the boys who all cheered and hollered in joy. The SM did not approve and yanked it out of his hand as if it was his award.

 

Some use the term "my troop" in a harmless fashion. Others really don't get it and feel that it is their troop. Why I don't chastise those who use the "my troop" phrase, I'm guilty of it occasionally, we should strive to set an example to others and I believe BW has made an excellent suggestion.

[mk9750]

Sorry Bob. I missed it in an earlier post, but it caught my eye in yours. I hope no offense was taken.

 

I do understand what you're saying, I just think that you're off base. As you say, words have meanings, and I for one am constantly preaching this. But "my" in this case has two legitimate, reasonable interpretations. the majority of posters here seem to be able to make the distinction between the two, and mean the more positive one when they say "my". Certainly, a few can't (or at least can't convince others that) they do understand). I disagree with them a vehemently as do you. But for those of us who use the phrase diferently than your interpretation, I think your suggestion that we could improve is off base.

 

I have acknowledged my level of training, and it is inferior to most here. But in no way do I believe I have any other role in my Troop but service. That doesn't preclude me from accurately identifying my association with it by say it is "my Troop".

 

Again, I don't believe you're wrong. I just think your seeing this from far too narrow a perspective.

 

Mark

[Bob White]

I respect your opinion Mark and I am not saying anything other than this is a personal choice one makes. But I would counter that by being willing to change old habits, acknowledge that words matter, and by realizing that what I say can affect how I act, I am in fact taking the much broader view and not a narrower inflexible one.

 

Bob(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[Rooster7]

BW,

 

What is being overlooked is the ability of language to affect attitude and for attitude to influence actions.

 

Im ardently convinced that no one is overlooking or denying your assertion. What you are apparently overlooking is most folks have not been persuaded that the use of the word my will corrupt the average persons attitude and trigger a negative action.

 

I appreciate that this may be a new viewpoint for many, and that not all misuse the term "my" but here is a way do distance yourself from those who do misuse it and to set a more positive example for others as a reminder of the adult's role with the troop.

 

Its a well-intended suggestion I suppose. But, if I continue to use the word my in front of troop, I hope you and others have the mental wherewithal to understand that it has nothing to do with my attitude as a leader. There are very few individuals that would try to make that connection and use it as evidence of something awry. Its nothing personal. Im just not sold on the idea that I have to conscientiously monitor and censor my use of the word my because Bob White is convinced that its the right thing to do. If others wish to do so, thats great. But for those of us who chose not to, I don't think any connotations should be made about our ability or our attitudes as Boy Scout leaders. It's just a bit too much for me to swallow.

 

[evmori]

OGE & mk9750,

Uns guys wouldn't be twin sons of different mothers would ya??? LOL!!!

 

Ed