Whose Troop is it?

[MaineScouter]

I think if you had a SM and CC who believed it was "their Troop" you would more easily see the importance and impact of this question and understand that it's more than semantics. Last week the SM had a closed planning meeting. He took the boys and "Assistant Scoutmasters only" into another room and shut the door. Although I know, according to BSA, he can't exclude me as a parent and a committee member, he did just that. Closed the door in my face, as a matter of fact. I turned to the CC and she said, "It's his Troop. He can do that if he wants."

 

I sent my "resignation" letter to the CC, SM, ASM, UC and committee members about 5 minutes ago.

 

So, my answer to the question, "Whose Troop is it?", is "Not mine anymore!"

 

MS

[Bob White]

Once again FOG spews forth adding absolutely no substance to the discussion.

 

The point I am trying to make is that words count. How we view ourselves affects how we act and react. How we refer to others has an affect on how we treat them. We are not the owners of the troop so should we be consistently refering to ourselves in a possessive fashion?

 

We are there to serve the youth and the Charter Organization so why not remind ourselves of that? It really does change the way you behave.

 

The troop is a gathering of patrols. The troop is owned by the CO. We as adult leaders are neither the troop or the owners of it. It is misleading and presumptuious to say that we are.

[Eagledad]

>>Once again FOG spews forth adding absolutely no substance to the discussion.

[Eagle74]

Something to think about:

 

If what is posted in this thread by BW (and others on that side of the fence) is true, is not the organizational chart posted in another thread upside-down?

[Fat Old Guy]

Ah Bob White, you preach living by the Scout Law but yet you cannot comply with a simple request. So much for "courteous."

 

I am reminded of an incident that happened at a place where I worked many years ago. One of my co-workers started his computer and discovered that it wouldn't boot. He said to our boss, "Something is wrong with my computer, it won't boot." The boss started screaming at him, "it's not your computer, it belongs to the government!" She stormed off and never addressed the problem. For months afterwards we refered to our desks, computers and such as "that which the government, in a spirit of cooperation, allows us to use so that we may accomplish our daily tasks." Oddly, the boss never got the joke.

 

As for my post, I am pointing out how inane your comments are.

[packsaddle]

Without getting bogged down in semantic arguments, I was under the impression that the CO 'owns' the charter, the hardware and other assets of the troop. But to use a church analogy, I consider the troop to be something almost spiritual that is 'owned' by all who contribute and participate...independent of and transcending the physical attributes. No one owns the individuals, but we all share the spirit and we all also share the responsibilities toward ourselves and each other. Maybe this is just even more confusing, but when I say 'my boys' I mean it as more than simply an endearment. I mean it as a recognition that I have a sense of duty toward them and that I expect a similar sense of responsibility from them toward each other. Anyone follow this, or did I just make things worse?

[evmori]

WOW Bob! I knew you were inflexible but never really knew how much until now!

 

Fat Old Guy makes a great point! To satisfy those who would like us to no longer use the word my and troop, patrol, unit, etc. together we will now have to post the way Fat Old Guy suggested in his post. The pronoun police are in da house!

 

Yes ownership can be a good thing. If the SPL feels it the troop is "his" he will probably do a better job. Same with the PL regarding the patrol. Do they actually own either? No. It's just a way of saying it. And Bob, you in past posts have refered to units & the like as "yours" or "ours". And there were the "my son's troop". There is nothing wrong with that! Lighten up, man!

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10(This message has been edited by evmori)

[keschmahalen]

Hello,

 

I think that it is time that I weighed into the fray, however, I hope that my actions will be accepted more like those of Frey.

 

I frequently find many of these threads very upsetting because many of us do not take the time to understand what the writer is trying to say, and accept it for what it is. When responding we would hopefully remember that most of us are scouts and scouters, and subscribe to the Scout Oath and Law. Therefore let us neither throw a volley nor return one. Both are offensive.

 

By the way, my is a posessive pronoun which implys ownership. It is also used in the vocative to express relationship to that about which one is speaking. However, I believe most of us recognise the difference without knowing what that difference is. In other words, if someone were to say this is my troop the average person would say that the word my in that sentence denotes ownership even though we know the person does not own the troop in the same way that he or she owns a car or house.

 

Now, if that person were to say this is my boat, we would know that that person does not own that boat, because the boat owns the person. The real problem is we do not know if the person who says that is my troop, really thinks he owns it. Unfortunately that is his problem and that of his troop. So let us take the suggestion to be a little long winded for what it is worth: to remind us that we do not own the troop; let us not worry if one says, that is my troop. Finally, let us all continue to do what we are all trying to do as best we can: SCOUTING! YIS, paul e. conley

[Bob White]

Poppycock and balderdash!

 

Where did either OGE or I say you had to stop saying "My Troop"? We are saying #1 it really isn't and #2 leaders who think of it as such lead in a less positive manner than those who think of it a relate to it as "the troop I serve".

 

By the way this isn't something I made up. this was a lesson taught to me in 1977 by William "Green Bar" Hillcourt the author of the Boy Scout Handbook for many years.

 

But that's Okay you go ahead and lead by FOG's example.

 

"And Bob, you in past posts have refered to units & the like as "yours""

 

Interestingly enough Ed if you search posts for references of "My troop", My pack" "My unit" There are only 8 references you will find when I refer to my WB troop of which I was a member, or in response to you or FOG saying "my troop".

 

Care to guess how often you said "my Troop" Ed?

in the last two years there are 129 references credited to you? 129!

 

It's a personal choice Ed and it is one that shapes personal behavior.

 

What harm could it do to change your attitude to one of service rather than ownership?

 

Bob White

[Fat Old Guy]

"By the way, my is a posessive pronoun which implys ownership"

 

Since you launched into pedantry, I'll respond in kind and point out that "my" is not a pronoun, it is an adjective.

 

 

[Fat Old Guy]

"By the way this isn't something I made up. this was a lesson taught to me in 1977 by William "Green Bar" Hillcourt the author of the Boy Scout Handbook for many years."

 

Sorry but that doesn't fly. If Green Bar Bill's books aren't useful tools anymore then any wisdom that he imparted to you must also be suspect. Next, you'll be recommending that we put butter on burns.

 

Give up the past, don't be afraid to use the program as it is written today. Find the author of the current handbook and ask him for his wisdom.

 

BTW, is it really "your" Wood Badge patrol? Do you own it? I think not. You should say, "the Wood Badge patrol of which I am a member."

[Bob White]

Troops are made of patrols. Since I was in a patrol in that troop It was indeed my patrol and my troop.

 

My course director by the way refers to it as "the troop he got to serve as scoutmaster".

 

Bob White(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[Fat Old Guy]

So Bob White, you owned that patrol and troop? Very interesting.

[evmori]

Bob,

Now you really have me confused! It's OK for you to call it YOUR Woodbadge patrol & troop but not OK for me to call the unit I serve as MY unit? And the difference is what?

 

You need to get a life Bob. If you actually searched through all those posts then you need to get out more. I was just remembering what you had posted.

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Fat Old Guy]

I decided to have a look at some BSA literature so I pulled out my copy of the current edition of "The Scoutmaster Handbook." Imagine my surprise when it states "your troop." Since BSA says "your troop" in a publication "recommended for all Scout leaders," it follows that those leaders may say "my troop" without crossing any line.

 

I'll leave it as an exercise for the reader to find all of the instances of "your troop" in "The Scoutmaster Handbook."