Whose Troop is it?

[OldGreyEagle]

In another thread the concept of who "owns" the troop came up. I see this as a boss who talks about "my people" (Pardon me, I thought Lincoln freed the slaves)

 

Anyway, who should feel like they own the troop? The SPL? The PLC, Just whom/who? ( I never could sort that one out)

[saltheart]

Ownership is a difficult enough notion for even many adults to understand in this regard, never mind the boys. But I suppose I would put it this way...two ways actually.

 

The troop is "owned" by the Chartering Organization. They brought it into being by agreement with the BSA to follow a certain path. So, that's my take on the legal part...my limited knowledge of law and 'stuff like that'.

 

The troop isn't "owned" by the boys. But it is, indeed, their troop to fashion into a creature of success or failure for themselves and those who will follow them. Volunteer adults take their place within that framework to provide necessary guidance, mentoring, and support. By the way the boys throw themselves into fashioning the troop, they can make it a thing of great fun and interest for themselves, and in doing so, they gain a feeling of ownership. And that's the way I think it should be.

 

Adult volunteers have no "ownership" in the legal sense. But we have great "ownership" of hope that our efforts are all worth the effort.

 

Wish I had more time to think about this one.

[evmori]

The CO owns the unit. Aside from that, does it really matter?

 

Ed

[Twocubdad]

I don't think it's a big deal. There is nothing wrong with everyone affiliated with a unit considering it as "their troop." To me is shows a bond and sense of commitment to the unit, not any sort of ownership or superiority. People frequently use the possessive when speaking of an organization to which they are simply a member. We often say "my church" or "my school" when we clearly aren't indicating any sort of ownership.

 

It's a little silly to expect that folks are going to run around constantly saying "the troop which I serve" instead of simply "my troop." If you hear an adult refer to "my troop" and immediately assume that 1) they're not trained, 2) they don't understand how charters work, or 3) the unit isn't boy-lead, or some variation thereof, you probably should consider using a little less starch in your shorts.

[mk9750]

OGE,

 

I presume your question is directed at those who continually refer to the Troop with which they are affiliated as "my Troop". If so, I'd like to make two comments.

 

"My" when used like this, can denote ownership, or affiliation. "My company" could be spoken by the person who owns the business, or by the employees who have a sense of belonging to the company. Both are very appropriate.

 

Also, typing "my" is easier than typing "the Troop with which I am affiliated".

 

I think that even for the most objectionalble people in this forum, most use "my" without trying to infer they own or run the Troop.

 

Mark

[OldGreyEagle]

Sorry Ed, I guess I was unclear in my intro. I actually took the idea for this thread based on an exchange between you and Bob White. The one where Bob objects to a Scoutmaster calling it "my" troop and SPL's doing the same thing and you questioned what was wrong with that, as you felt taking ownership was a good thing. I was just looking for reactions to the "my" troop mentality and if it is good or bad or what. Does that help? Again, sorry for my mixed signals

[evmori]

OGE,

No problem with the mixed signals.

 

I think taking ownership can be a good thing. It can give one a sense of accomplishment.

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[NJCubScouter]

OGE, if I understand what you are asking, you are talking about "ownership" in the more "modern" sense of being a "stakeholder" or having responsibility for something, as opposed to legal "ownership."

 

In that sense, and not to duck the question, I would say that the troop is like a "joint venture" and is "owned" collectively, but that each person's actual "ownership rights and responsibilities" extends only to the role and position they hold in the troop. If that concept is accepted, then I as a Committee Member and a youth member of the troop with no leadership position are both part of the collective "ownership," but our roles are quite different. And, of course, my "ownership" role lasts only so long as the CO decides to keep me on the charter.

 

As for the use of the phrase "my troop," I don't think that implies ownership in EITHER sense, unless some SM was to stand up like Louis the Sixteenth and say "This is My Troop!" On these boards, I have used the terms "my pack" and "my troop" many times to refer to the unit in which I am a registered leader. Sort of like "this is my country" (hey, good name for a song, oops it already is). In other words, when I say "my troop", or "my town" or "my country", I mean that I belong to it, not that it belongs to me.

[Bob White]

I look at it as a verbal affirmation of what you believe. Say "my troop" often enough and you behave as though it is "your troop". You will make decisions, and base your behavior and attitude, on the premise that it is your troop. It is, as Ed points out, taking ownership. Taking it from who though? If it was yours you would "be" the owner you would not have to "take" the ownership.

 

Scout leaders are not the owner. We should not take ownership of what is not ours. Let's refer to ourselves as who we are. We are adults who "serve the scout unit" we "serve the Charter Organization as scout leaders" we "serve the scouts of unit # **** " As Natioanal, Regional,District or Council volunteers We serve the Scouting program. It is not our program, or our unit.

 

How you think affects how you behave.

The more we say it the more we will behave like it.

 

Bob White

[Twocubdad]

Bob I would agree with you if folks were walking around saying "the troop I own," or "the troop I run." While we all know there are Scouters out there who don't understand the program, I'm sure the vast majority of Scouters who use phrase "my troop" don't intend either of those two connotations.

[Bob White]

It is not about what you mean when you say it, but about the how words can form attitudes and behavior. As Ed says it is "taking ownership". Take "responsibility" not ownership. You are responsible for serving the CO and the youth. You are not the owner of the unit or program.

 

Bob White(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[NJCubScouter]

Getting back to OGE's "slavery" reference, I have heard SM's refer to the troop as "my boys." I don't think they are claiming legal title or anything. I think it is more a "term of endearment," in a good sort of way, expressing kinship with the boys. Kids talk this way now, "my peeps," which I guess started in one ethnic community, but my daughters throw in expressions like that too once in awhile.

 

It's a matter of semantics. If you mean something in a bad way, it's bad, but if you mean it in a good way, it's good, as long as you say it in a way that others can tell which is which.

[NJCubScouter]

By the way, when I observe the SPL of my... er, my son's... er, the troop in which my son is a Scout, I wish he would consider it "his troop." I think the SPL's father (the SM) also wishes his son would consider it "his troop." That's part of the problem with this SPL, he seems to think any boys not in the "senior patrol" are those "new kids" and that he doesn't want to have anything to do with them, either directly or through their "new kid" patrol leader. A little "ownership" of the troop on this SPL's part would be more than welcome to all of us people standing on the sidelines, and I would suspect to the boys as well.

 

Fortunately, an election is coming. But as I said in another thread, Be careful what you wish for, you may get it. We shall see what the new SPL's attitude is.

[Fat Old Guy]

Now that saying "my" is a bad thing, we need to make a list of phrases that are acceptable to Bob White and OGE.

 

"the school that I attended"

"the doctor that tends to me"

"the church that I attend"

"the family of which I am a member"

"the neighborhood/city/state in which I live"

"the person who is a friend to me"

"the woman who married me"

"the fruit of my loins"

 

The list could be endless.

[River2K]

Seems to me the Chartering Organization would "own" the troop. According to the definition of charter in the dictionary.

 

I've always been more comfortable with using "our" troop rather than "my" troop when discussing the group. It seems more inclusive and less domineering to me.

Ken