BSA racism?

[Miki101]

I'll sign a copy for you.

 

The book is going to bring in a lot of characters that you never would have guessed had a hand in the founding of the BSA. Yet without them, the BSA would not have a had the success and the revolutionary effects on the American society that it did in the first 10 years.

 

It's going to be quite an eye-opener for Scouting/Social historians.

[Trevorum]

Thanks!

I'm keen to know, what primary sources have you had access to insde and outside of BSA? Is this an avocational passion or are you a professional historian? Do you touch on myth of the "Unknown Scout" in the fog? Does the book go back to Beard's Handy Book?

 

... I'm just full of questions!

[Miki101]

Thanks for the questions.

 

I will have to be a bit mysterious until the book comes out. I have had access to over 35 (at last count) archives and private collections in addition to the BSA that deal with my topics. I have amassed a file of over 10,000 pages of documents, as well as over 200 books and other sources in my research. Many of them primary sources. I do go back the Beard's HANDY BOOK and as well as the "Unknown Scout."

 

I am not a professional historian but a Certified Scouting History Freak who finds that my worst day of Scouting is better than my best day at work. I write and research ever night in my spare time from 10pm to about 2am. My most exciting moment is digging up a fact that has been missed by "professional" historians in some obscure source. And by now, I have a handful of these little gems that will make for a clearer picture of the founding of the BSA.

 

You see, I have an understanding wife.

 

[Trevorum]

A labour of love - those are the best! And the subject is long overdue. Thanks from all of us for undertaking the project - I will wait patiently until publication.

[Be_Prepared]

To add more to the topicsegregation was law in the South, and the BSA was a part of the times. During the mid 20s there were around 250 black troops around the country, with a total membership of a little less than 5000 scouts. Several organizers ( including Stanley Harris ) set up the BSA Inter-Racial Service, which was an experimental program to encourage local councils to start black troops.

 

In some states, there were separate districts set up for black troops, with parallel operations, including camps, commissioners, etc. By the mid 1930s about 2 percent of scout age black youth were involved with scouting. The Inter-Racial Service also promoted scouting in Indian schools and reservations, among Mexican youth along the Rio Grande and among Japanese boys on the West Coast.

 

[NWScouter]

Here is a web site about Camp Parsons. http://www.seattlebsa.org/Pages/Camping/Parsons/historic/BOS/chapter05.html

Scroll down the page and read about Harold "Bud" Fisher in 1919.

This was the camp I went to for 7 years in the 60s.

 

[Aardvark]

Somewhat along these lines, back in September my Troop went camping at an abandoned campground here in our Council (Pine Lake, Central Georgia Council).

 

Turns out, it was the "Black" summer camp (Camp Ben Hawkins was for the White Scouts). What really hit home for us, the Scoutmaster of the other troop campping that weekend spent his youth at this camp.

 

Made for an interesting discussion at our joint campfire that night!

[emb021]

Something to add to this (am aware of much that has been touched on).

 

In my recent studies of the Lone Scouts of America program, I was suprised to see issues of the "Lone Scout" refering to is a the 'white boy's' magazine. I pulled out Mitch Reis's history of the Lone Scouts and re-read it, and found that the LSA decided they were for 'whites-only'! Apparently this was something that was discussed in the early issues of the "Lone Scout" and it was decided they wouldn't allow blacks.

 

One thing that suprise me about this was that many times I've read that William Boyce was who had insisted at the begining that the BSA be opened to ALL youth, regardless of race.

 

Michael Brown

[acco40]

Regardless of official policy I've talked to many blacks about Scouting today. I think they are still under represented. But think about Scouts from a black perspective. It is group that is predominantly white, goes camping off in the woods, and lights campfires and sometimes (although not much anymore) has secret rituals. This may conjure up images of KKK rallies, lynchings, etc. I know it is a stretch but sometimes ignorance can play havoc with perceptions.

 

Scouting units usually reflect the geographical makeup of where they are located. In the USA, we live in a highly segregated country. Personally, where I live, the metro-Detroit area, is one of the most segregated communities that I know of. It is a shame.

 

 

[emb021]

This is why we have stuff like ScoutReach.

[Kahuna]

With respect to segregation in the South: as someone has already mentioned, it was the law in those days, which seems pretty shocking to most people who didn't live it. I was a camp staffer in college at a summer camp in Mississippi. Always thought it was a hoot that there was a separate camp for black Scouts, but it started after ours ended. Some of the staff and all of the tents, beds, and cooking gear went over there for their use and then was returned when the camp season ended.

 

Of course, the U.S. military was segregated in those days too. When I was stationed at MacDill AFB at Tampa, Florida, there was a part of the base called the North Area. It had a separate swimming pool and other facilities that seemed to duplicate a lot of things on the main base. I later learned it had been the quarters of the black airmen stationed there until the desegregation order in 1947.

[eisely]

This is an interesting thread. I grew up in cental Missouri (Jefferson City and Columbia) and attended segregated schools until desegration began after the 1954 Supreme Court Case. I can only affirm that there were no black youth in scouting in either town of whom I was aware.

 

When I was on camp staff, a black troop from another town in our council (either Moberly or Mexico as I recall) came to summer camp one year. As far as I can tell they had total acceptance.

 

I was personally oblivious to most of this as a young boy. It was not until desegration began that I began to think about this things. Blacks were a very small minority in both Jefferson City and Columbia at the time, so it was relatively easy to accomplish desegregation.

[Prairie_Scouter]

If we can go back to the original post for a moment, I was wondering if anyone in this discussion knows why BSA allowed the LDS units to discriminate as they seem to have done if this was against BSA policy? Perhaps "allowed" is not the right word, but hopefully you'll see what I'm asking. I'm not clear on how this happened.

[acco40]

The BSA does discriminate - it has age, gender, and "belief" requirements. Are you suggesting that the BSA or more specifically, BSA LDS units discriminate or illegally discriminate? Could you give more details?

[Kahuna]

Prairie Scouter writes: I was wondering if anyone in this discussion knows why BSA allowed the LDS units to discriminate as they seem to have done if this was against BSA policy?

 

I know some will object to my take on that, but I believe the BSA is a very pragmatic business organization. The LDS membership is an enormous percentage of our total membership and has been for a long time. Without the LDS church, the BSA would be an entirely different organization. Like most businesses (and despite our lofty ideals), I think the BSA is willing to be very forgiving of a large volume "customer."