Troop Guide Training

[spork]

I am the senior Troop Guide in my troop and we have just picked up quite a few new troop guides. I was curious if any of you have seen Guide training programs run, or know of any resources online to help me out, since I am going to do a training session with them soon.

 

Thank you

[Bob White]

Spork I see you are a Patrol Leader and Librarian, are you also a Troop Guide? How many New Scout Patrols does your troop have?

BW

[hops_scout]

I'm a troop guide as well. Our New Scout Patrol has two guides. I'm a Star Scout and my partner is a new Eagle. We also have a troop guide with the second year boys as well. Plus, we have almost half the troop who are considered troop guides.

[Bob White]

If you would allow me spork to make some observations that may help. Your troop has chosen a unique use of the term and role of the Troop Guide. because of this there will be no training tool developed since the position was not meant to be used in this manner.

 

The troop guide is meant to be a mentor to the New Scout Patrol. One older scout who works as a co-patrol leader as each member of the patrol holds the PL position for 30 days to experience how a troop functions with boy leadership. The Troop guide is a member of the New Scout Patrol and a voting member of the PLC along with the patrol leader that month. The position is meant to be one boy in order to build a relationship with the new scouts and lead them to First Class in approx. the first year. As of the second year the patrols are under their own elected leadership. To give them a Troop Guide negates the need for an election.

 

To have half the balance of the troop as troop guides would be like have half the troop be Librarians, there really is no need.

 

I will also offer that with so many scouts there really is no need for anyone to hold more than one office at a time. That is not the purpose of the patrol method.

 

My recommendation is to review the section on troop guide in the Scoutmaster Handbook and the Senior Patrol Leaders Handbook, and to review the troop structure recommended by the Boy Scout Program. I think you will see that by getting back to the recommended troop organization plan the purpose of the Troop Guide would be far more clear.

 

You will note in those resources that the New Scout patrol has along with the troop Guide an Assistant Scoutmaster who works with him. Together they create a program of activities that make it possible for an active scout to achieve the basic sklls of scouting and Advancement to First Class in the first 12 to 14 months of membership.

 

I caution against reinventing the wheel. the one designed by the Sccouting program works the best but only if t is used. The further from the program you stray the more difficult it will become to find the needed support materials.

 

I hope this helps,

Bob White

[spork]

I updated my profile from a year and a half ago when I was patrol leader and librarian. Now the only positions I hold are Troop Guide, and Director of our Drum and Bugle Corps. Thank you for pointing that out.

 

I'm not trying to make half the troop troop guides or anything like that. I didn't even make them troop guides, that was my scoutmaster's decision. They way we have always done things, and this is slightly different, is that the major burden of the guides has been on the new scout patrol, but one guide was also assigned to every other patrol. This guide, in addition to helping the new scout patrol, will also help the older patrol if they request it, or if one of the other leaders (spl, etc), sees that they need it. This is very similar to the way most JLTC programs are run. They generally help with things like advancement, and it is usually the patrol that they came from. So we had 4 guides, one turned 18, one became spl, and one moved on to become JASM. So we have 3 more new guides, I'm pretty sure they are all star, if not they are first class, but they are all qualified. I want them to have some kind of training so that they do the best they can possibly do. Thank you for any of your help. I will consult those books BW.

[Overtrained]

Hi Spork,

 

There is a training manual for Troop Guides that your district Training Chairman may have. They might even have a scheduled training.

 

The training is for the troop guide as BW describes it. So it would help the guide for the first year scouts, but I don't know beyond that.

[NJCubScouter]

Just for the record, the comment about "almost half" a troop being Troop Guides (or being "considered" Troop Guides) came from Hops, not Spork.

 

As for what Spork did say, I agree with others that the troop leadership needs to look at the what these "troop guides" are doing. Having a troop guide assigned to a "regular patrol" has the potential of diminishing the roles of both the PL -- who having served briefly as PL of the New Scout Patrol and having been elected a "regular" PL should now be ready to "fly on his own," reporting directly to the SPL -- and also the SPL, part of whose job it is to "guide" the PL's and help them deal with problems. If you have "troop guides" doing parts of each of these jobs, it is almost like you have a "second" troop leadership structure, with the "senior troop guide" as sort of a "shadow" SPL and the troop guides for the "regular patrols" being sort of a hybrid of ASPL and co-PL.

 

There is a second, and perhaps more "positive" way to read what you are saying. You say the troop guides in the regular patrols "help with advancement." If they are teaching skills, their title could simply be changed to Instructor, and it wouldn't hurt to have an Instructor "assigned" to a patrol for purposes of dividing up the work. If they are passing boys on requirements... well, at that point I will leave the issue for others, because I have become a bit confused myself on who is supposed to be signing off on requirements these days. If the SPL assigns an older boy to work with Scouts on requirements, I am not sure whether that boy needs to have a specific title.

[spork]

One more thing needs to be clarified.

 

The troop guide does not take away from the responsibility of the patrol leader. The troop guide only intervenes if necessesary. He does not represent the patrol, that is the patrol leaders job. He does not run the patrol, that is the patrol leaders job. You have to understand in a young troop like mine when the patrol leaders are 13 and first class that sometimes they need guidance, and that is understandable. The troop guides responsability is primarily to the new scouts, but if other scouts need help and the patrol leader can't handle it by himself, that guide is there too. This isn't what I was asking about, we have been using this system in our troop for years and it always works, no one has any complaints about it, i was only asking about guide training.

[Bob White]

Please don't misunderstand my post spork. My point was that you are looking for training material for a use that the position was not designed to fulfill. How would the BSA know to produce such a documnet. Training information does exist for the purpose the office was designed for.

 

The role of supporting and guiding patrol leaders is specifically the responsibility of the SPL and the Scoutmaster. If they are not developing the patrol leaders then what are thescoutmaster and SPLs responsibility in your troop?

 

I appreciate that what you are doing works. But there are alot of things that you could do that "work". That fact that it works does not make it scouting. I think if you look at the scouting program resources you will see that the program is designed to function much differently in order to gain specific results.

 

Hope this helps,

bob White

[spork]

Thank you for clarifying, that makes a lot more since.

[Eagledad]

>>I appreciate that what you are doing works. But there are alot of things that you could do that "work". That fact that it works does not make it scouting.

Hope this helps,

bob White

[NJCubScouter]

Eagledad, I think what has caused the "concern" here is not the troop guide position for the NEW scout patrol, which is what I think you are talking about. That position clearly exists and is important and your training suggestions are good ones. The concern is with the "troop guide" for the REGULAR patrols. The position does not exist and could be counterproductive, unless it is really just a misnomer for "Instructor" which would involve a different kind of training.

[spork]

I didn't start this forum to discuss this. I asked if there was any information. Bob White did a very good job of answering my question. I am satisfied. You guys can continue telling me the right way to do things, and I could just continue to tell you a way that works better for our younger troop, and we could go on and on. So you guys go ahead, but I'm out.

[Bob White]

Thanks spork, glad to help.

B:)b White

[Eagledad]

Hi NJ

 

I understand, but come on. Someone in need has asked for help to fix a car and all the adults can say is your driving the wrong model. Like he has a big choice in the matter or has the ability to instantly change the adults program. First help the scout with his immediate needs then we can sit down and pow wow about his program.

 

I know there are some who will preach the ideal program will solve all the problems. But my experience is you better understand the big picture first because no matter how good you build your program, it will have it's problems because boy run troops have lots of individuals and you can build for every unexpected situation that comes up. If you understand the big picture, your program will achieve the intended goals. There is too much attention given to the structure and not enough of the foundation. The program structure will go through a lot of struggles and test, but the foundation (big picture) never changes.

 

You know, these guys are so amazing and God has given us the gift to help them. Leave the adult junk to the adults and help the scouts grow to be the men they are capable of being.

 

Sorry for the soapbox, I can't help it. I love this scouting stuff.

 

Barry