Dealing with a Pregnant Crewmember

[qwazse]

BDPT100, never saw my approach as liberal. Good Book says the Almighty sides with the poor and fatherless ... guess I'd better follow suit.

 

On one level, I don't like the hypotheticals. On another I think they do help us improve our frame of mind with the youth.

 

I'm not touching the early termination scenario. Partly because it brings me to tears, but mainly because it's unlikely that it would occur out in the open. The likes of us would never be told.

 

Married youth are a grey area in sleeping arrangements ... but the nice thing about a crew is that discipline the officers' responsibility. I'd advise the youth and the couple involved to sort this out ahead of time. They may decide that for the weekend the husband should be "one of the guys" and the wife should be "one of the girls." OR they may decide the couple should bring their own tent or pay extra for their own cabin.

 

BD for the same reason you would want their tent in the adult area, I would want it as far away as possible. I remember one National Park where a couple should have tented a little farther away ... I almost felt like applauding ... (the Mrs. threatened to slap me if I did). We went through the next day a little short on sleep because of that one!

 

For a couple that is half over 21, the no fratenization policy kicks in. But on the ground I'm told it can flex a little. That's been discussed elswhere in this forum.

 

[ScoutBox]

I feel that the Crew Members should always show respect during Crew events and hold off witht he couple aspect. If they cant do that then they should not be in teh Crew. They are around too many younger Crew members and Scouts to be doing that while Scouting.. I think its the same when adults are on an outing with the Scouts etc.. they should show respect for the scouts by holdinhg off on showing afection for one another.. DO it off alone but not when with the boys..

[sbemis1]

$.02

 

She should be able to stay in crew and office if she choses. She may want/need their ongoing support to help her cope. (adoption, raising, etc)

 

She will need to have plan of how she will manage it all. (Not necessarily anyone's business, unless it will impact the crew)

 

Would the dissenting parents have the same comments for an expectant father? (probably not, though I recognise the unkind thought this implies).

[Eagle007]

In my humble opinion, if the crew isn't negatively impacted then she stays. I always try to keep an open mind in all matters. But until we have walked two miles in that particular crew's shoes and those of its leaders/parents and have been in that particular situation then it is hard to speculate.

[Stosh]

"Dealing with a Pregnant Crewmember"

 

?? My question would be why would the crew need to deal with it at all? Obviously the girl is dealing with it. The father is dealing with it. The girl's and boy's families are dealing with. I'm sure the school is dealing with it as well as her church/synagogue. Being under aged, I'm sure some legal counsel is dealing with it as well as medical personnel.

 

So with everyone on board why can't the crew just mind it's own business>\? I'm 60 years old and kids in my high school faced this same problem (45 years ago! Duh!) This "problem" has been around for a long time and no matter what the crew leadership does to mess in the situation it won't change anything one little bit.

 

From where I stand, "concerned" people have been trying to deal with this issue for 40 years and haven't gained one inch of progress on it. MYOB

 

And when the dust settles is it really what the girl thinks of the Scout Law? or is it more important for me to know what Trustworthy, Loyal, Helpful, Friendly, Kind, Brave means for ME! For those who are dead-bent on judging this girl, they might wish to consider their own position first... that is before they toss the first stone.

 

Your mileage may vary,

 

Stosh

[BrentAllen]

I'll respond, after thinking about this for a long time.

 

First, I see lots of posters forbidding anyone to judge the 16 year old, but are quick to judge the concerned parents, and harshly. I find that interesting.

 

"What you do speaks so loud, I cannot hear what you say." GBB, Handbook For Patrol Leaders

 

I'm trying to imagine how I would feel if my daughter was 14 years old, and had just joined this Crew. This 16 year old is going to be teaching and mentoring her? As a parent, I should just accept this? I shouldn't have any concerns about any discussions held late at night among the girls? This 16 year old obviously isn't mature - if she was, she wouldn't be pregnant. Am I to believe she is suddenly going to be mature, now that she is pregnant? That she will refrain from talking about sex to young minds?

 

"What you do speaks so loud, I cannot hear what you say."

 

I'm trying to imagine how I would feel if my daughter was about to turn 14 and wanted to join Venturing, and we visited this unit. How would I judge it on carrying out the Mission of the BSA? To prepare young people to make ethical choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law. If I am honest, I'm most likely looking for another Crew. Some here will argue that being in a Crew with a pregnant member would be a great learning opportunity, a great life lesson, and there is some truth to that. But as a new parent to the Crew, I'm weighing the pro's and con's, and the con's are probably going to win.

 

If I am a leader of this unit, do I ever look in the mirror and ask are we succeeding in our mission? If not, what are we going to do about it? Are we going to make any changes, or just keep doing what we are doing?

 

Yes, she made a mistake, a big mistake. We continue to love and support her. But are there no consequences? Does this young woman even consider what she has done to the reputation of her Crew? If not, she should. She should have some pride in her self, her family, and her Crew.

 

Just to be clear, I do not advocate abortion. IMO, she should carry the baby to term and decide if she can raise the child herself, or if she needs to seek adoptive parents.

 

If I ever had to face this issue, I am fortunate that my pastor is our IH, a man I greatly admire and respect. I am sure we would think and pray about this long and hard, and I would abide by his decision. I am confident God would give us direction.

[Eagle007]

BrentAllen, you make some very valid comments concerning a family with a daughter who are visiting a crew such as this. Have we all pretty much seen unwed minor females become pregnant in the public school system or even in the church we attend - ABSOLUTELY. And do the parents of the other students/minor church members remove their children from these institutions - rarely and most of the time not, at least in my experience. But, because this is such a small and specialized group in our world, the impregnated girl seems to stick out like the proverbial sore thumb. If I were part of that visiting family I would probably look for another crew also and leave that one to deal with their particular baggage as I wouldn't see that as the role model for a daughter(s) of mine.

 

Call me old school and that is fine. When I was a scout at summer camp we were given fair warning not to cross into an adjacent girl scout summer camp area. I am not sticking my head in the sand by any stretch of the imagination because I know that kids are going to have premarital sex no matter what; and there are consequences for those actions. But why we are co-eding these kids up in overnight settings is beyond me. Before anyone starts, I know there are separate sleeping arrangements. But why put an alcoholic drink in front of a recovering alcoholic? Why put temptation in front of these children? If you don't think these kids don't think about sex on a constant basis then you must have been locked up in your closed your entire childhood.

 

This girl may have or may not have had relations during a crew outing. If she did then I would say that adds to my opinion that these co-ed organizations need to be separated into a boy's crew and a girl's crew.

 

I have made it very clear to my wife and my step-daughter that if she (step-daughter) puts herself in a compromising position resulting in her impregnation then she would need to pack her bags and live with her biological father and his family. Am I being a jerk - absolutely not. I'm not raising somebody else's baby(ies). I've raised mine. By the way I've told my son the same thing. "Don't expect me to raise any illegitimate children - so don't put yourself in that position in the first place, son." My family is in total ageements on this one - marriage first and then procreation.

[SeattlePioneer]

Interesting comments by Eagle 007.

 

 

I'm no Xpert on Venturing ---- aren't they supposed to decide issues like this rather than the parents? If they are, how should they do it?

 

Should parents expect to accept the decisions the Crew leaders decide?

 

Interesting point that the pregnant girl is a Venturing leader. Is it reasonable that should give parents pause about her being in the Crew?

 

 

Suppose the Crew decided that they have a duty to support the pregnant Crew member and decide that aiding and supporting her during her pregnancy and after the child is born should be one of their major projects?

[Eagle007]

"I'm no Xpert on Venturing ---- aren't they supposed to decide issues like this rather than the parents? If they are, how should they do it? Should parents expect to accept the decisions the Crew leaders decide? Interesting point that the pregnant girl is a Venturing leader. Is it reasonable that should give parents pause about her being in the Crew?

Suppose the Crew decided that they have a duty to support the pregnant Crew member and decide that aiding and supporting her during her pregnancy and after the child is born should be one of their major projects."

 

I will preface my response by saying that my comments are largely from a father's point of view and not that of a leader in Venturing; therefore, I'm not an expert in that organization either.

 

I believe as long a the pregnant crew member is a minor the parents should and will have the final saying all matters concerning her.

 

As far as the parents accepting what the crew decides... they would have to make that a personal decision. Everyone is different.

 

A pregnant minor Venturing leader would certainly give me pause as a parent and cause me to question many things. First and foremost I would remove any of my children from that crew as I do not see that being a positive influence on my children.

 

I think it is totally ridiculous for a crew to put themselves in that position as you suggest for a major project. My family would certainly not be a part of it as I do not see rewarding someone for something I believe is morally wrong. I'm not throwing stones at the girl. I'm simply giving a perspective of what I'd do for me and mine. I have to look out for my family and raise them the best way I see fit. But to each his own. If that is what the crew chooses to do, such is life for them.

[clemlaw]

>>>>>>I'm trying to imagine how I would feel if my daughter was 14 years old, and had just joined this Crew. This 16 year old is going to be teaching and mentoring her? As a parent, I should just accept this?

[NeilLup]

This thread reminds me of a thread from a few years ago discussing a 16 year old young man who was receiving his Eagle Scout award and wanted his girlfriend and son to attend.

 

As with many such things in our society, there is no one, uniform, consistent answer. The posted answers range from "throw the harlot out" to "provide continuous, welcoming support." I suspect that in any reasonably diverse group, those sentiments would be present.

 

To me, the attitude of the young woman would be of significance.

 

a) Is it "I made a mistake and I'm going to do my best for the child that I will have" or is it "Oh, boy, oh boy, isn't it wonderful that I'm pregnant and going to have a baby" or is it "La, la, la, la, I can't hear you, nothing has changed." The attitude that she takes might significantly influence what I believe should happen in the Crew. What attitude and leadership will she bring to the crew. If the lesson is that having a baby is a big thing and that consequently, sex is a big thing, that isn't necessarily bad at all.

 

b) Does she appreciate the physical changes that will be occurring. Initially, no big thing but certainly as the pregnancy proceeds, they are. That could impact high adventure if it is a high adventure Crew. Again, what is her attitude.

 

She is getting a crash course in being an adult. Ideally, she would be the one making the decision about what her relationship with the Crew should be and it would be a reasonable, adult like decision. Isn't encouraging and enabling and empowering young people to become adults and make adult decisions what Venturing (and indeed Scouting) is all about. This is certainly a place where that can happen.

 

No easy answer. That's why we leaders get paid the big bucks.

[Eagle007]

I would like to formally apologize to anyone who may have taken offense with anything I have said in this forum or any others that I have posted on. Nothing that I post is meant in any offensive manner or meant as harm toward anyone, especially a scout.

 

On this particular discussion I'm simply giving my opinion as a concerned parent with my children and me playing a hypothetical role. And as we all know opinions are like noses - everybody has one. And sometimes it's better to agree to disagree on sticky subjects as these and everyone remain civil.

 

I do wish the young lady nothing but the best.

 

Again, my apologies.

[shortridge]

But why we are co-eding these kids up in overnight settings is beyond me. Before anyone starts, I know there are separate sleeping arrangements. But why put an alcoholic drink in front of a recovering alcoholic? Why put temptation in front of these children? If you don't think these kids don't think about sex on a constant basis then you must have been locked up in your closed your entire childhood.

 

Let's shut down the public schools and ban teen dating, then. Newsflash: Kids can engage in sexual activity even during the daytime and even when there's no bed, cot or sleeping bag around.

[qwazse]

Eagle007: But why we are co-eding these kids up in overnight settings is beyond me. ... But why put an alcoholic drink in front of a recovering alcoholic? ...

 

One thing I've learned over the past 5 years:

Girls are not honey, and boys are not flies.

 

The co-ed outdoor program seems to give promiscuous impulses pause. I don't understand why, it's just what I've observed.

 

Whereas, a Saturday afternoon at the mall seems to heighten it.

[Eagle007]

Please allow me to set the record straight. I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that minors can and will give in to the desires of the flesh no matter time or place. Give me a little credit for I didn't just fall off of the turnip truck. It is a personal issue that I have as far as overnight co-ed camping. It's my personal feelings and convictions and I don't expect anyone else to see it from my point of view. And again, no offense or disrespect intended to anyone. Thank you.