Convincing a Stubborn Scoutmaster to Start a Venture Crew

[bacchus]

Moose, I agree. Somebody can't expect to just come in and steal all the active older scouts in a scouting program!

[OldGreyEagle]

Sorry, totally confused

 

Is it a Venturing Crew that the Scoutmaster did not want to start or a Venture Patrol. I keep seeing the phrse "Venture Crew" and as there is no such thing, I don't know what is going on

 

I have to say that I realize that a Venture Crew exists in the Vocabulary the same was Class A does

[shortridge]

OGE - I think "Venture Crew" is different from "Class A," because pretty much everyone knows what you mean by "Class A."

 

No one knows exactly what's meant when we start talking about "Venture Crews" or "Venturing Patrols."

[Eagle92]

Short,

I agree, lets call it Leadership Corps once again.

 

OGE,

From 1989 to 1998, the older scout patrol that was once called the Leadership Corps was renamed the Venture Crew. When Venturing came out in 1998, the Venture Crew was renamed Venture Patrol, and the new program Venturing called their units Crews. At least as early as May 1998,if not earlier, national was informed that this would lead to considerable confusion. I know because I was one of the many DEs complaining to the national director of Venturing at PDL-1 about the confusion that would ensue if the use the "Crew" designation that was already in use. Now I understand why they chose Venturing: that is what other countries call their 14-21 yo program.

 

So that's why you got old fogeys like myself still saying "Venture Crews" instead of Venturing Crews.

[BadenP]

I gotta agree with OGE here it seems like the parties involved do not seem to understand the difference between what a Venture Patrol and a Venturing Crew really are. This is why there may be the confusion and stubborness among the adult leaders. There is no such thing as a Venture Crew, a Venturing Crew is a coed program for 14-20 year old youth and is totally seperate from a troop. A Venture Patrol is a patrol within a troop made up of the older boys.

[moosetracker]

I guess for me it still is crystal clear.

 

If you register as a Venturing Crew, and you have advisors, and you have a charter stating you are a Venturing Crew.. Then on the district roster you are a Venturing Crew..

 

If you do not register as a seprate unit but have are an older boy patrol and called a Venture patrol. You are a patrol.

 

The whole definition of a Crew is basically they have no definition. Except they are for young people under 21 years of age, who present a good image to the community.

 

If the Crew is meeting and working with the troop, that does not null & void their ability to be called a Crew..

 

Also our Venture Crews have many options open but are not forced to do a certain thing to be considered a Crew. They can be all boy, all girl or co-ed. They can wear a green uniform or not. They can work for Venture awards, Eagle (if 1st class in BS troop), or not do any of the awards, they can be high adventure or not. They can hold positions or not. They can be part of a troop or not..

 

One crew does ballroom dancing, no high adventure, no positions, no working for awards.. This is still called a Crew because they are registered and have a charter stating they are a Crew.

[OldGreyEagle]

Moosetracker, Moosetracker, Moosetracker,

 

and you were so close

 

first you say

 

"If you register as a Venturing Crew, and you have advisors, and you have a charter stating you are a Venturing Crew.. Then on the district roster you are a Venturing Crew..

 

If you do not register as a seprate unit but have are an older boy patrol and called a Venture patrol. You are a patrol.

 

The whole definition of a Crew is basically they have no definition. Except they are for young people under 21 years of age, who present a good image to the community.

 

If the Crew is meeting and working with the troop, that does not null & void their ability to be called a Crew."

 

I may quibble a bit, its not that there is no definition, a Crew can be oriented to Outdoors, Sports, Arts and Hobbies, Religious Life or Sea Scouts, or they may be ecletic and dabble in a whole bunch of stuff that they the youth want to do so they plan it and do it. Then again, if you can do everything and anything, I guess I can see why you would say there is no definition.

 

Then you say:

 

"Also our Venture Crews have many options open..." and everything you list is true of a Venturing Crew, I still have no idea what a Venture Crew is

 

In my experience, a Troop started Crew will fail. Why did BSA come up with Venturing in the first place? Because they wanted an older youth program that was Co-ed and youth lead and didnt necessarily have to go camping. Scouting was losing youth to programs that were Co-ed and geared for high schoolers, the Boy Scout Program levels at about 14 years old or so. So, if the Troop wants to do "more things" then they should do them. The only advantage to being a Venturing Crew is that the Crew can be Co-Ed, shoot pistols and any size caliper firearm and hunt. Well, and be Co-ed of course. The last thing a busy boy scout needs is another competing program.

 

In my area, the best Crews are those with youth who are not Boy Scouts, they do not have to serve two masters, as I remember that can be tough

 

Edited Part

 

This is from Venturing Leader Specific Training:

 

Venturing is a youth development program of the Boy Scouts of America for young men and women who are at least 14 years old (and have completed the eighth grade) through 20 years of age.

 

Local community organizations establish a Venturing Crew or Sea Scout Ship by matching their people and program resources to the interests of young people in the community. The result is a program of exciting and meaningful activities that helps youth pursue their special interests, to grow, to develop leadership skills, and to become good citizens(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

[moosetracker]

Venture Crew , Venturing Crew.. symantics.. My idea is correct though. My titling may just need work.. (So I will try to just use Crew, so I don't get my symantics chewed up.)

 

I am not argueing what the Crew was designed for. What you say is correct about the idea behind the formation of it. But, just that since they are free to do anything they choose, forming with a troop doesn't null & void them from being a Crew. IF.. IF.. they register and have a charter stating they are a crew..

 

Around here, they don't serve two masters either. Because the Crew Advisor 95% of the time is the Scoutmaster. The other 5% of the time the SM & Advisor work in unison. Much less of a two master system, then a boy registered in a seprate Troop & Crew at the same time, meeting on different nights for both.. Crew works out any times they split with the troop for their own High Adventure outings, their may be some conflicts with the troop events, but not many. And the younger boys love having them around. They may agree to split to a seprate meeting on different days and join together on others.

 

I do not argue what should be. I even would like to see our independent Crews get stronger and last for longer then the typical 5 years and have more the 5 members, and be successful. So I am not quibbling that all Crews should run with troops.. I am not stating that a Crew can only run with a troop to be successful..

 

All I am stating is that here, ours do not seem to be doing so. And that a "Registered" Crew attached to a troop is a Crew and not a Patrol. They are so, simply because they register as such.

 

Co-ed, no uniform, staying in past the age of 18, shooting sports, different awards, different positions (some form a crew, just because their troops are so big and Ventureing affords them more positions that are acceptable for Life rank).. Who knows why the troop forms the Crew, rather then just have a patrol.. The troops with the crews are usually our strongest largest troops with the most enthusiatic ScoutMasters.. I am unsure if the Crew made them that way, or if the Troop formed the crew because they were that way to begin with.

 

But then it is strange that our Councils are so different that your successful crews are our failing crews and vica-versa for us. I would love to see what you do different, what type of training or guidence or whatever your council does for it's crews that ours does not.

 

I would not like our Crews w/ Troops fail.. But, I would love to see Independent Crews in our area succeed..

[OldGreyEagle]

I made the switch to "Crew" long time ago, I am not above saying Venure Crew myself, much to the delight of many. The other vocabulary adjustment I made was saying "Youth", not Boys. That helped a lot as well.

 

One of the young ladies who was a charter member of the Crew shocked me last night at the Venturing Forum (you know, where Venturing adults get together for Supplemental Training, I think in Boy Scouts they call them "Roundtables"

 

The young lady has been the DE in the District for 2 years, she has been a professional scouter for 4 years and I met her 10 years ago

 

 

YIKES!!!

 

 

[Gary_Miller]

OldGreyEagle, Venturing Crew would be the term I meant to use. Maybe that was some of the confusion.

[Basementdweller]

Venture Patrol has got to be one of the dumbest things I have ever heard.

 

 

I agree with OGE that it is just another patrol within a troop.

 

Moose you must really enjoy typing.

[moosetracker]

Yeah.. I'm a programmer, so typing is my buisness.. And I am opinionated and stubborn to boot.. Very lethal combination.

[Eagle92]

Why I recommend going back to the older term Leadership Corps. They are suppose to be the older, more experienced scouts who are providing skills training to the younger scouts. They are leaders in the troop, despite not being a PL or SPL, who should be performing vital work to the troop.

[Eagle92]

Why I recommend going back to the older term Leadership Corps. They are suppose to be the older, more experienced scouts who are providing skills training to the younger scouts. They are leaders in the troop, despite not being a PL or SPL, who should be performing vital work to the troop.

[qwazse]

Plus, the leadership corps patch looked really cool. (Gold lamp, with a flame, on a read background.)

 

Sthiker, find out from your stubborn SM why he would be uncomfortable with a Venturing Crew under the same CO as his troop. Then, find someone who has been known to work well with this SM, is willing to get Venturing Leader Specific Training, and can serve as the crew's advisor.

 

Crews are crazy things. (As the above posts attest.) They are trying to attract the age range that the BSA has the hardest time retaining. They function best with appropriate training and teamwork.