Crew with High attrition rate

[CNYScouter]

I became he UC for this crew as my son used to be a member of these Crews but lost interest when they moved meetings (when they switched to outdoors) to a time he had other commitments.

 

To answer some of the questions:

 

What does the crew president have to say about this?

This is a 100% adult run unit. There are no youth officers.

 

if the president is not meeting WITH the committee or addressing the CO at some point in the year, in my opinion, you don't have a crew.

Crew committee doesnt meet. As far as I can tell they figure out what adults are doing when whoever shows up to meetings.

As a side note - no parents are involved as leaders in this crew - only members of the CO.

 

Meeting indoors in the winter just because its winter would be a show-stopper for my youth.

As these are shooting crews and with the amount of snow we get meeting outdoors during the winter just isnt possible

 

Have you suggested the crew attend a Council/Area VOA event?

Our council doesnt have a VOA. There is just not enough interest to start one.

The same with a council Venturing event our Crews just arent interested in attending.

2 years ago there was a Area Venturing event. None last year but I hear they are trying to put one together for the spring.

 

When my son was in this crew I asked the adults running the crew about attending Venturing events. They are only interested in shooting and shooting only and will not even bring up attending any type of events to the youth in the crew.

 

As far as training is concerned in two years when the BSA makes it is mandatory for any leader who has direct contact with the kids that problem will take care of itself.

Our council has defined a direct contact leader for a Venturing Crew to be the Advisor and Associate Advisor. This crew has already figured out they only need to get one person trained (advisor) and just register everyone else as a Committee member who are not required to be trained. These committee members can then continue working with the youth without training.

 

Local Tour permits

I know when my son was in the crew they tried to set up a contest between the crews and another youth group, no one showed from the crew. I dont know if they have tried to do this again but as I have been told not to bother them with all the scouting paperwork I would guess that they just dont bother with tour permits.

 

Might as well let the charter lapse

Not my call. As I said before most of the District Committee would agree but its not their call either.

 

My biggest conflict is that we have a new Council Commissioner and new SE who are saying that units like this will be dropped.

 

As a UC I dont want to see these units dropped and need to at least put in some effort (Ive only met with them once) to advise them and offer my assistance what is required to keep them chartered.

 

[Stosh]

What does the crew president have to say about this?

This is a 100% adult run unit. There are no youth officers.

 

>>> This is exactly how my crew is run.

 

if the president is not meeting WITH the committee or addressing the CO at some point in the year, in my opinion, you don't have a crew.

Crew committee doesnt meet. As far as I can tell they figure out what adults are doing when whoever shows up to meetings.

As a side note - no parents are involved as leaders in this crew - only members of the CO.

 

>>> Again, this is exactly how my crew is run.

 

Meeting indoors in the winter just because its winter would be a show-stopper for my youth.

As these are shooting crews and with the amount of snow we get meeting outdoors during the winter just isnt possible

 

>>> My boys always seek shelter in the winter time, it's Wisconsin for heaven's sake.

 

Have you suggested the crew attend a Council/Area VOA event?

Our council doesnt have a VOA. There is just not enough interest to start one.

The same with a council Venturing event our Crews just arent interested in attending.

2 years ago there was a Area Venturing event. None last year but I hear they are trying to put one together for the spring.

 

>>> My boys have no interest in anything other than the focus of the crew. In 10 years they have never attended an event that wasn't related to their interest.

 

When my son was in this crew I asked the adults running the crew about attending Venturing events. They are only interested in shooting and shooting only and will not even bring up attending any type of events to the youth in the crew.

 

>>> This is exactly the situation we are in and it's preferred as such by the boys.

 

As far as training is concerned in two years when the BSA makes it is mandatory for any leader who has direct contact with the kids that problem will take care of itself.

Our council has defined a direct contact leader for a Venturing Crew to be the Advisor and Associate Advisor. This crew has already figured out they only need to get one person trained (advisor) and just register everyone else as a Committee member who are not required to be trained. These committee members can then continue working with the youth without training.

 

>>> The CA and CC are the only trained leaders.

 

Local Tour permits

I know when my son was in the crew they tried to set up a contest between the crews and another youth group, no one showed from the crew. I dont know if they have tried to do this again but as I have been told not to bother them with all the scouting paperwork I would guess that they just dont bother with tour permits.

 

>>> Tour permits and rechartering is handled by the adults.

 

Might as well let the charter lapse

Not my call. As I said before most of the District Committee would agree but its not their call either.

 

>>> Our crew is often cited as one of the best in the Council by both the DE and Council personnel. Our CO is very pleased with the Crew and feel it's a vital asset to their program.

 

My biggest conflict is that we have a new Council Commissioner and new SE who are saying that units like this will be dropped.

 

>>> This sounds like a problem not with the Crew, but with the Council personnel.

 

As a UC I dont want to see these units dropped and need to at least put in some effort (Ive only met with them once) to advise them and offer my assistance what is required to keep them chartered.

 

>>> It sounds like one needs to find out what the burr is under the saddle of the Council rather than what's wrong with the Crew. From the comments made, it sounds as if my crew is remarkably similar to the situation being described but no one is concerned. Yes, we have a very high attrition rate. There are a lot of boys who think this is going to be exciting and fun, but once they get in and find out that it's work, they drop. Those that stay are in it for life. I have charter youth members who are now adult leaders in the crew 10 years later.

 

Given the information, thus far, I would start with the Council rather than the crew. The crew might be doing just fine. If I were to take a guess, I'm thinking the Council is worried more about numbers than programming.

 

Stosh

[CNYScouter]

jblake47-

 

If you don't use the Venturing structure, don't do Venturing awards and don't go to Venturing events why bother registering as a Venturing Crew?

[Twocubdad]

A few years ago, when I was on the district committee, it was fashionable to seek out existing youth organizations and register them as crews. Purely to boost Venturing numbers. A big push was to register all the ROTC units at all the high schools in the district. There was no thought that these new crews would change their operations in any way or adopt any part of the BSA program. In fact the sales pitch was that they could continue business as usual, but take advantage of the council facilities at no charge (other than the membership fees).

 

Things started getting out of hand when the districts all tried to register their OA chapters as crews. I think the council finally put the kabosh on all the silliness when the districts got in a fight to see which district could register the summer camp staff as a crew.

 

I imagine if I walked into the council office today and wanted to register start a crew with the intent to operate just as CNY describes, I would be greated with open arms.

[shortridge]

The pitches to existing youth organizations are many and varied. Here are just a few excerpts from "Here's Venturing: A Guide to Implementing Venturing in a District or Council," 2003 printing. (Emphasis is mine.)

 

In most cases, Venturing crews are organized from an existing group of youth, usually with leadership already in place. What the Boy Scouts of American can offer to existing youth groups is access to resources.

 

Venturing Resources Available to an Organization Serving Teenage Youth

 

- Access to local and national BSA camping facilities

- Local events/activities tailored to teenagers

- Expertise and program helps for

* Twenty-five outdoor disciplines

* One hundred twenty-four meeting plans

* Fifteen superactivity suggestions

- Thirteen nationally recognized awards for young people

* Five Bronze awards * Silver Award

* Gold Award * Ranger Award

* Quartermaster * Apprentice

* Able * Ordinary

* Quest

- Four nationally recognized awards for tenured adult leaders

- Training for all adult leaders, which includes Youth Protection training

- Eight-session youth leadership skills training course

- Video: Youth officer training and job description

- Twenty-seven ethical controversies modules

- Instruction on how to conduct an annual planning session

- Instruction on how to conduct a reflection

- Low-cost liability and accident insurance

 

Selling Venturing to Religious Youth Groups

 

One of the greatest sources of new Venturing crews lies in the religious organizations of America. Most religious organizations already have a high school-age youth group. Many are seeking resources, program material, retreat facilities and structure to help them in their mission.

 

The Venturing program has been tailored to help religious youth groups achieve their aims and purposes by providing leadership training, outdoor and high-adventure activity, program ideas, recognition for the youth, audiovisuals, literature and insurance.

 

Selling Venturing to High School-Age Clubs and Groups

 

Here are some samples of high school-age groups that have partnered with the Boy Scouts of America by forming a Venturing crew.

 

- Young Marines club

- Scuba club

- Program center for physically handicapped youth

- Council camp staff

- Local Audubon Society youth group

- Members of an Order of the Arrow lodge

- Search and rescue organization

- Ham radio organization

- Skateboarding club(This message has been edited by shortridge)

[Eagle92]

I was at the 1998 NLTC, aka "All Hands Conference," that brought out Venturing, and can tell you that ALL of the ideas mentioned by Shortridge, save the OA Lodge and Quest Award ones, were told to DEs to use in marketing Venturing.

[Stosh]

"If you don't use the Venturing structure, don't do Venturing awards and don't go to Venturing events why bother registering as a Venturing Crew?"

 

Our CO is a reenacting group which mandates that all youth must have a parent that is a member in order for their children to participate. Due to the fact that there are a number of youth interested in the hobby that have parents that are not, this allows for a viable alternative. BSA provides insurance and a structure of trained adults that are capable to taking care of these boys in the absence of their parents.

 

The youth thus operate as an auxiliary of the CO, supplementing their numbers and falling in with their numbers at the various events. I am CA of the crew and captain of the CO. The last four years I was also the president of the CO. The Crew's CC is a former captain and president of the CO as well. We are both BSA trained. Many of the CO also "keep an eye" on the boys in the field offering one-on-one safety with the boys.

 

Because the group is 100% totally focused on reenacting, the boys have never expressed any interest in the Venturing program of advancement and have chosen to pursue the advancement of the hobby instead. We have had boys that have functioned as high as lieutenant in the field (National mega event). Right now 3 of our boys hold NCO positions that are valid in the Crew as well as the CO and the reenacting world. An opportunity presented itself last summer when the CC was asked to take command of the regiment as colonel and he asked me to be his adjutant. That would have left the company without military leadership, but the CO decided that the next viable candidate to take command of the CO/Crew company would have been our senior sergeant moving him up to lieutenant for the event. While he was 20 years of age and 6 years of experience, he was still a "youth" in the eyes of the BSA. I chose to not take the adjutant position. Both trained crew adults would not be close enough to supervise the crew but the lieutenant would have done just fine. I went as captain and my crew member was my lieutenant for the event. This was the decision of the CO that a crew member would actually take command over them for the event.

 

With this alternative structure, the boys don't wish pursue Venturing advancement. The "advancement" they gain in the crew carries over into the adult world of reenacting which they seem to prefer.

 

The "leadership" training these boys receive parallels those goals and focus of the BSA program. Since last summer, my lieutenant has enrolled in ROTC and taken basic training. His only comment was that the opportunity in the Crew gave him sufficient advantage of leadership and discipline to the point that upon completion of his basic training he was promoted. He said the discipline was greater in the crew than in ROTC. He did enjoy being a private once more for a while and just do as he was told. Once they recognized his leadership skills, that didn't last.

 

Two other of our boys have enlisted and served in both Iraq and Afghanistan. One received medals (and on full disability) for his service as a marine in Iraq and the other is serving as an NCO in Afghanistan. Our marine still takes the field with us as best he can for the big events and our Afghanistan soldier has already inquired when the next event will be following his deployment.

 

Any boy that comes from a BS troop MUST stay with his troop and gain his Eagle to stay active in the Crew. So far 7 Eagles have served in our Crew. Only one did not fulfill his commitment. One of my Crew boys is an Eagle, 3rd ASM on my Jambo contingent with me.

 

While we do not actively follow the Venturing program, I'm thinking we're doing something right along the way.

 

Stosh

[Twocubdad]

So why do you choose to charter as a crew? What's the advantage to your overall program?

[Eagle92]

The biggest advantage is insurance coverage. Another advantage is that they can stay at scout camps while traveling.

[Stosh]

Besides the BSA perks, i.e. mess hall at camp used as a drill hall, insurance, there's always the issue of trained leaders. This is primary in my opinion. All the adults that wish to "hang out with the boys" needs YPT and if they wish to become involved directly with the boys, there's the basic CA training. It also makes it easy to "scapegoat" BSA along the way at times. When there's a potentially dangerous activity at an event, we can always play the BSA trump card and say, "BSA policy won't allow that." This allows us to exit the field, or not take the field when it assumes greater risk than what the adults feels is appropriate for the boys.

 

We also hold the boys to a higher standard of safety because of BSA policies. For example, National has allowed the crew to operate under the umbrella that if it's appropriate for the hobby, it falls into the guidelines of BSA acceptability. However, we are dealing with a special group of people in the hobby that lack the maturity and legal status normally acceptable in the hobby. Our boys are trained to a higher level of safety expertise than the average person in the hobby. By doing this the boys are better trained and they can also recognize unsafe situations around them that they need to avoid. All of this emphasis is a result of the BSA policies being passed on to the adults in the Crew through their policies and programs.

 

Without the BSA umbrella, it is my opinion that the quality of organization in the crew would not be to the level it presently is. It is not just parasitic, where we just take from BSA, but we symbiotically work with BSA to provide a viable programatic option for boys who wish to get into the high-adventure opportunity of the hobby.

 

Insurance, we can get that through other options connected with the CO. We could work to get the CO to change their by-law policies to accommodate the youth, and we could do all kinds of things without the assistance of the BSA. With that being said, we would not have achieved the level of quality in our group without the assistance of the BSA.

 

Stosh