Silver loops for Venturer

[AlFansome]

I'm one of those that wears different loops at different times.

 

I'm a Pack Trainer in my son's pack in district A. I'm a Chartered Rep for 2 packs and 2 troops in district B. I'm also on the District Committee as popcorn chair in district A (and technically in district B as a COR as well, I guess).

 

I have 2 shirts:

- an ODL shirt with blue loops, red numbers, and my Pack Trainer patch

- a Centennial shirt with silver loops and my Chartered Rep patch (no unit numbers)

 

Regardless of the "primary position" thing, I wear my ODL shirt to my son's Pack activities, and I wear my Chartered Rep shirt to my chartered unit events, district dinners and council annual meetings.

 

To do anything otherwise wouldn't represent the function that I'm fulfilling that evening.

 

[BadenP]

I understand you might have more than one position but if you are a SM and a webelos leader which do you think is your primary position, hint usually it si the highest ranking one. Those scouters serving in 3 or more positions I really question their effectiveness or efficency, I think they are in it more for self satisfaction than anything else especially the youth. As far as how many uniforms you need to use some common sense, especially with how much they cost. But with everything others have said it does not change the fact that you still have only one primary position, and maybe one or two secondary ones.

 

So the bottom line is wear what you are not what you think you should be, a cub scout pack would have no problem seeing their webelos leader wearing his SM uniform to pack events. Those of you who want to wear a myriad of uniforms for secondary positions, most of them performed only a handful of times during the year are trying to do nothing but show off or trying to impress others and is that what being an adult scouter is supposed to be about?

 

Why does a Chartering Rep or Committee Member even need to wear a uniform anyway, because he can? Most that do it is for ego boosting since they have no direct contact with the boys anyway, but it really is plain silly.(This message has been edited by BadenP)

[AlFansome]

 

As an ego-boosting, self-satisfying show-off with (egads!) 2 shirts and (oh my!) a couple positions that apparently don't take much time, I'm happy for all of you that you can get by with your one shirt for your one position and still have your self-esteem intact. Is there any training that I can take to become as secure as everyone else?

[Eagle92]

Baden,

Some of us do have multiple uniforms for a variety of reasons. I know I had 2 shirts back in the day,one with the troop insignia, one with the BA22 stuff which later became a troop shirt. I know of some leaders who went through the old WB course that converted their WB shirts to additional shirts. As for me, I got a bunch of unis b/c the 2 BSA jobs I had required me to have them, and yes the Sea Scout uni was required for me to work at the council's seabase. I've kept them, and although I don't use all of them, I have one with the DisCom patch that I will wear when I do training courses and district events, I have one with the OA associate adv. for when i do OA events as i am still an AA until the end of the year, and of course I do have my TCDL uni. The sea scout uni comes out on a few opccasions, usually at nautical themed events like CSDC this year, but otherwise the uniforms are in storage.

 

Thinking about it, maybe I should wear my DisCom uniform to pack meetings since that is my primary registration with the BSA. (This message has been edited by eagle92)

[shortridge]

BadenP,

 

Question. If you have to have direct contact with youth in order to wear the uniform and not be called "silly," then why do staffers at National wear it? Or district committee members? Or DEs? Or the SE? Or UCs? Or members or chairs of various council committees?

 

I'd love to meet a COR or unit committee member who wears the uniform. It shows that he or she is involved enough to care, and has some pride about his or her involvement and service.

[Eagle92]

Short,

Unfortunately in my 27 years, I've only seen 5 CORs wearing a uniform: 1 was dual registered as an ASM with the troop (don't ask) and he wore s uni with ASM por; 1 was an eagle, and as involved as possible with the pack and troop ( also served on the council's Catholic Committee on Scouting); 1 had a legacy with scouting, starting as a "Den Mother," and the other was the LDS Bishop who also served as Dis. Chair. The 5th one was interesting: COR of one pack and troop, but served as an ASM for another!

 

Baden,

Forgot to mention, not all "support staff" folks sit in the rear with the gear. In my troop growing up, there was a uniform culture on the youth side, and the adults fell right into it as well. Some MCs did not have uniforms and that was fine, but those that played a more active role, i.e. going camping, summer camp, etc did have a uniform, did wear a uniform as it was expected.

 

Thinking about my old troop, there were 7 CORs I know who wore uniforms. At one point the COR of the troop tripled as COR/CC of the troop and (you're gonna love this) adviser of the crew. AND the COR/CC of the crew also served as SM of the troop. DON'T ASK HOW, but the CO actually had a different COR for each unit!

 

 

[AlFansome]

Yep..at our last Council annual meeting, there were maybe 3 or 4 Chartered Reps there, and only one other in uniform. Other than that, you never see CORs around here that I can tell.

 

I'm COR through my Kiwanis Club. I had been in the club for 5 years before I found out that we sponsored 2 packs, 2 troops and a crew, which says something about the relationships with the units. It was only after my son became a Cub and I started being a leader in his pack, that I was approached about being the rep for the Kiwanis units. The last year has been interesting as I try to overcome the neglect that's been shown to the units and to get one in particular to get with the program (literally!).

 

Between the 4 units, I may go to 20 events a year in uniform.

[BadenP]

shortridge

I agree with you that professional scouters at all levels should only wear a field uniform when doing field activities jamborees,camps, camporees, day camp etc. The pro scouters main job is to sell scouting to the community, businesses, and agencies in order to gain financial support and to have these businessmen volunteer their time and talents to the district and council, to that purpose the pro has an appropriate dress uniform and he would look pretty silly going to talk to a corporate executive wearing a field uniform with shorts and a necker wouldn't he. The same can be said for COR, IH, and committee members what is their job, to recruit leaders and to support smoothly running scout units, why do you need a field uniform for that? Even if some go on outings why do they need to wear a uniform, what purpose does it serve they are not providing a program to the boys?

 

To those who insist that they must have a different uniform for every single activity they perform in scouting, be my guest, ego is sure not in short supply among some scouters, lol.(This message has been edited by BadenP)

[AlFansome]

"Not providing a program to the boys" ... you're joking right .. ha ha .. lol.

 

Give me a break, some of the hardest working, most dedicated volunteers I know are the commitee members, chairs and district folks.

 

Oh, the BSA disagrees with you, too, otherwise they wouldn't have patches for all those positions...you know, the ones that really shouldn't be following one of the methods of scouting, anyway.

 

(This message has been edited by AlFansome)

[Eagle92]

Why do support folks wear a uniform, probably for the same reasons leaders and youth wear one. The uniform does a variety of things.

 

1) it identifies you as a member of the world's largest youth movement

 

2) it is a physical reminder of you to live up to the ideals of Scouting.

 

3) It identifies your role, activities, and achievements in the movement

 

4) It's an equilizer.

 

5) it sets the example for the youth leaders, who set the exampel to the scouts.

[BadenP]

Al just because BSA makes a patch doesn't make it a reason to wear a uniform, and I never said committee members are not hardworking just that a uniform isn't really necessary for that position, except for those who want to show off their ego's.

 

Eagle92, as a former DE I am really surprised that you feel the way you do. There were several people in my former council who were ex commissioners, ex committee members, ex district members who had not been actively involved for years and they still showed up at events in full uniform criticizing and correcting volunteers, until I reminded them that since they were no longer registered scouters they were not entitled to wear the uniform any longer. Off they stormed swearing under their breath. This is what I mean about some adults who never grow up and these are the same kind of adult scouters who feel they need a myriad of uniforms to show off. There is a big difference between need and necessary.

[Eagle92]

Baden,

I think I understand better now. Yep I mety a few of thsoe folks as well. The left b/c of the SE and refused to be registered b/c of him, but were somewhat active still, usually on EBORs and helping with events (lots of our events were sponsored by community organizations, and theier members would attend). What was funny is after i left the council, the SE announced he was leaving, and I was invited to a party by a bunch of them to celebrate with champagne.

 

Again my view of the uniform is based upon my expereinces. The support folks were active. Like the female COR who wore her old DL uniform. That eagle scout who was IH/COR did attend unit functions as much as possible, and was resposnible at major council events for conducting religious services.

 

As for the two nuts in my old troop and affiliated crew, i don't know if they had a second uni or not (more than likely yes though), but I do know both were active in the units that they were in a support position for. the Troop CC did it because he beleived in setting the example for the other adult leaders and youth leaders. Wearing the uni was an expectation(This message has been edited by eagle92)

[sherminator505]

Wow! I'm surprised by such strong opinions on the uniforming of district/council folks. I maintain a uniform as a district committee member for one simple reason - I train. And when you train, you are expected to be properly uniformed.

 

Ultimately the question is not too dissimilar to the question about the shoulder loops. It depends on what Scouting job are you doing, and what the uniforming expectations for that job are.

[kahits]

Quite the discussion this turned out to be. I think Sherm's last sentence about says it all. I would have loved to kept life simple and just wore my blue loops, but my son joined a troop, left his pack, and I ended up taking on responsibilities that were more then I could imagine. Each position, whether it was on the District committee, my daughters new crew, or my sons troop, or the OA chapter, had different expectations for how the uniform went with the job. I enjoyed most of what I have done, but have more uniforms then I started out with after Cubs. It's all good.

[BDPT00]

BadenP,

I'm in disagreement with your position. You're claiming that someone who wears a uniform is bragging or being just plain silly. I would assert that someone wearing a uniform is exercising one of our methods as well as setting an example.

You state that one would obviously be primarily registered in the position of "highest rank." Where did that notion come from? If there is a "rank" structure for positions, please put these in order for me: Scoutmaster, Den Leader, Assistant Scoutmaster, Pack Committee Chair, Unit Commissioner, District Commissioner, Council Committee, National Committee, District Chair, Troop Advancement Chair, Charter Rep, OA Chapter Adviser, Venturing Advisor. I'd be very curious how you would think this is obvious, and how you would "rank" them.

BDPT00