venturing vs. sea scout question

[stricklat]

Theoretically, a Sea Scout could receive the Ranger Award, the Quest Award, the Silver Award, and the Quartermaster? Or is a sea scout only allowed to receive the Silver and Quartermaster?

[Eagle92]

To my knowledge they are open to ALL venturing awards. It's just that only Sea Scouts can get Quartermaster.

[BadenP]

I dunno eagle 92 why would a sea scout even want to earn Venturing awards in the first place, they have their own rank awards they need to earn before they can get Quartermaster? Besides even though the two programs are currently under the same umbrella they truly are seperate and distinct programs with very different formats.

[shortridge]

The simple answer is yes. And that includes the TRUST Award as well.

[Eagle92]

BP,

You got some overachievers out there. One guy I know of got his eagle last year at 13. He's now duel registered as a Scout and a Venturer, in fact he is out on a kayaking expedition with the crew as I type and will be leaving for PSR next week. While not a sea scout, yet anyway, he has said he wants Silver and Ranger.

 

Edited; he's going to PSR with the troop. Crew is at Pamlico Sea Base, the council's nationally accredited high adventure base.(This message has been edited by eagle92)(This message has been edited by eagle92)

[Buffalo Skipper]

BadenP,

You hit the nail on the head when you said "why would a sea scout even want to earn Venturing awards in the first place, they have their own rank...."

 

One of the Methods of Boy Scouts is "Advancement." The closest thing in Venturing is "Recognition." The Venturing program has no rank structure like Boy Scouting. Sea Scouting, in some ways, works on the edge of the Venturing model, as it does have a formal rank structure. Yet since these Sea Scouting falls under the auspices of Venturing, Sea Scouts can earn Venturing awards as well as the Quartermaster rank.

 

Likewise, anothter of Venturing's Methods is "High Adventure." For Sea Scouts, this is not limited to "High Seas Adventure." The program encourages high adventure and recognition. Certainly the Ranger Award meets this requirement. And many of the skill sets used as required and optional requirements for Ranger could easily be directly linked to Sea Scouting. For required, First Aid, Emergency Preparedness, Communications, Cooking, Land Navigation (shares many attributes of marine navigation), Cooking, and Conservation are the obvious ones; for optional, how about Ecology, Fishing, Lifesaver, SCUBA or Watercraft. This makes the Ranger award look positively salty.

[emb021]

You still see Sea Scouts pursuing Eagle. If some are going after Boy Scout awards, why not Venturing awards? The Gold & Silver are generic enought that any Sea Scout should easily be able to earn. If the Sea Scout has an interest in sport, why wouldn't they get Quest. Or an interest in their religious belief, why wouldn't they their religious award and on to TRUST?

 

As Eagle92 noted, there ARE Sea Scouts who do work on all those awards. Our last Quartermaster recipient in my council was trying to get Silver & Ranger before aging out. Our past Regional Venturing President was past Regional Boatswain, and had most of the top Venturing & Sea Scout Awards. He was also involved in Camp Fire USA, and had recieved their WoHeLo Award (their Eagle, if you will).

 

[BadenP]

I still feel that a sea scout going after Venturing awards is a rather rare exception than the rule. With all the recent structural changes to Sea Scouting on the National level eventually you are going to see Sea Scouting become its own independent program once again, as it should. At that point the crossover of programs and awards will stop, case in point the Quartermaster Award, because of its pre req's and requirements unless the Venturer is also a member of a sea scout ship it is virtually impossible for him to earn that award.

 

In fact I have read recent literature from National, and our council exec. stating that the Quartermaster award is no longer available to Venturing crews and will be eliminated from the next Venturing Handbook.

So it looks like the youth will have to be dual registered in both a ship and a crew if they want to earn both sets of awards and ranks.

[emb021]

"In fact I have read recent literature from National, and our council exec. stating that the Quartermaster award is no longer available to Venturing crews and will be eliminated from the next Venturing Handbook."

 

The Quartermaster award was never available to Venturing Crews. From day one, only Sea Scouts could earn Sea Scout Awards. I know this was confusing for some at the begining, but I thought that was all cleared up. Am pretty sure its clear in the Venturer Handbook (and other works) that only Sea Scouts can earn it.

 

I would be curious to such 'literature'.

 

"So it looks like the youth will have to be dual registered in both a ship and a crew if they want to earn both sets of awards and ranks."

 

Since every Ship is really a crew, there is no reason for Sea Scouts to be dual registered. I do know of some Sea Scout leaders saying that they would 'dual register' their ship as a ship & crew, but that was redundant.

 

Also, back in the old days of Senior Scouting in the 30s & 40s, we did not create walls between the various old boy programs (Explorer Scout, Sea Scout, Air Scout). All Senior Scouts could earn any senior scout awards regardless of the program they were in. Troops could have sea scout patrols in them. Sea Scout Ships could have Air Scout flights in them. Heck, they created the Senior Scout Outfit to allow for units in which the boys could do all the senior programs in one group.

 

So I really don't understand this 'anti-venturing' attitude on the part of some sea scout leaders.

 

For me, this belief that the Sea Scout program will be broken out from Venturing just because of an organizational change is reading a bit too much into things. I know I've had some long conversations with my regional commodore (who is a member of the national sea scout committee). He doesn't believe such a split is coming, and I have to agree.

[BadenP]

emb021

 

That's not what it says in the venturing handbook, Quartermaster is open to all venturers, including the girls, lol. Some venturing crews have a water emphasis and CAN pursue that award after they complete the Sea Scout Bronze Award no where in the Venturing Handbook does it say that only sea scouts can get the Quartermaster. Since this is the official BSA Venturing publication I can only assume you are wrong. Also check page 69 in talking about the Quartermaster award it states,"This badge of color, beauty, and symbolism, but most of all challenge, awaits every venturer who has the determination to achieve excellence."

 

So again it says nothing about being a sea scout or only restricted to sea scouts, especially since there is a Bronze Award in Sea Scouting open to any Venturer. So emb021 it seems you are in error according to "official" BSA publications. I personally know of two sail boat venturing crews who have awarded the Quartermaster to several of their members, all they needed to know where the special skills to receive the award, no sea scout uniforms or ranks as in sea scouting. I think you now understand why the National Sea Scout organization wants to split completely from Venturing and preserve the Quartermaster Award as a strictly SEA SCOUT award. As it stands now that is not the case and I understand their frustration.

 

Addendum, I also think that the Gold, Silver, and Ranger Award ought to be strictly Venturing awards and that is why the split between the two groups is inevitable and necessary.(This message has been edited by BadenP)

[Eamonn]

About a year or so back in our neck of the woods there was a bit of a fuss when word went out that a Venturer had been awarded the Quartermaster Award.

As a newbie to Sea Scouts, I didn't really join in or have a strong opinion one way or the other.

One Sea Scouter, who I really like and admire, who has been around Maryland Sea Scouting for a very long time, pointed out that one of the Apprentice Requirements reads:

"Describe the Sea Scout uniform and obtain one. Tell how and when the uniform is worn and how to care for it.

Reference: See "Sea Scout Uniforms and Insignia".

This kinda made sense to me.

But just to muddy the waters it was also pointed out that as Sea Scouts are under Venturing, a Ship could go with the Venturing uniform requirements.

Some of he Sea Scouts I know do work on Venturing requirements. Not so much because they are in any way "Over Achievers". In fact the guys and girls I'm thinking of could well fall under the heading of "Lazy Little Toads"! They opt to do the Venturing stuff, because from about November until May, other than work on boats there just isn't that much outdoor stuff going on with the Ship.

I really don't see any problem with any youth member working on any youth award. If they are happy and any award is earned correctly, I say more power to them.

Eamonn.

[emb021]

When Venturing was rolled out, there were several of us who had discussions (and 'discussion') on line regarding non-Sea Scout Venturers earning Sea Scout Awards as well as the relationship between Sea Scout Bronze & Ordinary.

 

What was hashed out AND confirmed by National was:

 

* only Sea Scouts may earn Sea Scout Advancement (ie you're in a Sea Scout Ship, AKA a crew registered as 1208- Sea Scout Ship.)

 

* Sea Scout Bronze & Ordinary have the same requirements.

 

* ANY Venturer may earn Sea Scout Bronze.

 

* ONLY Sea Scouts may earn Ordinary. But by doing so, they automatically receive Sea Scout Bronze. This allows the Sea Scout to go on and earn Gold & Silver, if they so desire.

 

I know some of this I discussed with National and said they really need to revise the books to make this clearer. They never did.

 

Now, if the National Sea Scout Support Committee is finally getting the books fixed to clearly say the above, good for them. But totally removing info on Sea Scouting isn't the way to do it.

 

 

[BadenP]

emb021

 

what you and Eamonn point are all very excellent reasons why sea scouting and venturing should be seperated under two different and exclusive programs. This sea scouts can earn this award and this award but venturers can only earn this award is both biased and elitist. On top of that emb 021 none of the current publications support your statements, so why this may be the intent of some National sea scouterit has yet to be put in writing and therefore is just opinion. Next you could have Webelos earning boy scout ranks the whole idea is plain ridiculous. I say again that everything you have stated are just personal ideas or intentions but not factual according to all the BSA literature. In the interim two more venturers in my district were awarded the Quartermaster this weekend, given to them by the SE, and they are not sea scouts, so I say again where are the facts to back up your claims?

[Eagle92]

Emb reminded me of a conversation I had with Holmes' predecessor on this topic. Not only did he state what Emb said, he also said, and get this, any sea scout who earned Ordinary RETROACTIVELY earned the sea scout bronze award. I then added, "So since I earned Ordinary as a youth, I am entitled to wear the sea scout scout bronze award ribbon?" and he said "Yes."

 

Please remember that when Venturing came out in 1998, it appeared to have been hurried b/c of the Chicago lawsuit if memory serves. The only uniform item out there was the shirts and POR patches. Shorts, socks, belts, and hats came later (1999) and pants came out later still (2000). Also a lot of the literature was rushed, as evidenced by some of errors encountered buy the first editions of stuff. While the Venturing program mayhave been in the works, it wasn't a finished project when it came out in august 1998.

 

And we knwo how sometimes once things get published, the errors may be revealed , but they keep on being printed in later editions. This not only happens with the BSA,but also with other literature, i.e. Stephen Ambrose and Blye from BAND OF BROTHERS comes to mind.

[BadenP]

Yea Eagle92 but they have had over 10 years to correct this and have chosen not to, come on that is more than enough time even for National. Again you and emb 21 are going on someones word or opinion and making assumptions, and you know what that means.(This message has been edited by BadenP)