Can someone briefly explain Venturing to me?

[Liz]

Hello, knowledgeable folks!

 

My son is 15, Star rank, and is the youngest member in his very active BSA patrol. All the other boys currently in his patrol will be turning 18 sometime within the next 12 months. They have been together for many years, and now are talking about starting a Venturing Crew (partly to seek new adventures, partly to buy some time since you can be a "youth" in Venturing through age 20). But I and my son are both a bit confused about how all this works. We have some questions.

 

- What is the difference between a "Venturing Crew" and a "Venturing Patrol?"

- Is it necessary to start a different organization, which would involve convincing the CO to sponsor yet another group (or finding a different CO), or can they be an addendum to the existing Troop?

- If they are part of the existing Troop (if that's even possible), would they still be able to include female members? (one or two of the boys in the patrol have close-in-age sisters who want to join).

- How hard is it to continue working toward Eagle after joining a Venturing Crew? Is this too much? I read somewhere that boys who are First Class or higher when they become Venturers can continue working on Eagle requirements without having to stay active in a troop in addition to the Crew; but it wasn't an "official" source so I don't know how accurate that was. My son's not sure he's going to want to stay active in both a troop and a crew, primarily because of time commitments.

- What about OA? My son and all the members of his patrol are in the OA.

- How does uniforming work for a Venturer who is also a Boy Scout and/or is working on ranks toward Eagle and/or is in the OA? Two separate uniforms?

 

Thanks in advance for your help.

 

-Liz

[John-in-KC]

- What is the difference between a "Venturing Crew" and a "Venturing Patrol?"

A Crew in Venturing is a Chartered Unit. The same charter/franchise/license rules apply to it as do a Troop or Pack. A Venture Patrol is a subunit of a Troop. A Crew can take youth members, male and female to age 21. A Venture Patrol is restricted to Boy Scouts under the age-out of 18.

 

- Is it necessary to start a different organization, which would involve convincing the CO to sponsor yet another group (or finding a different CO), or can they be an addendum to the existing Troop?

No. A Crew is a chartered unit of the BSA. It needs a Committee, a Program Officer (Advisor) and at least 5 youth members.

 

- If they are part of the existing Troop (if that's even possible), would they still be able to include female members? (one or two of the boys in the patrol have close-in-age sisters who want to join).

A Venturing Crew can be co-ed.

 

OTOH, a Venture Patrol is an element of a Troop, and thus closed to youth female program members.

 

- How hard is it to continue working toward Eagle after joining a Venturing Crew? Is this too much? I read somewhere that boys who are First Class or higher when they become Venturers can continue working on Eagle requirements without having to stay active in a troop in addition to the Crew; but it wasn't an "official" source so I don't know how accurate that was. My son's not sure he's going to want to stay active in both a troop and a crew, primarily because of time commitments.

EagleSon was primary registered in his Crew and secondary registered in a Troop. He earned his Eagle from the Crew. ADVANCEMENT is NOT a method of Venturing, RECOGNITION is.

 

- What about OA? My son and all the members of his patrol are in the OA.

No problem. The only restriction is youth members in a Crew cannot have elections. They can be members. EagleSon, who now is only registered in a Crew, is an Arrowman.

 

- How does uniforming work for a Venturer who is also a Boy Scout and/or is working on ranks toward Eagle and/or is in the OA? Two separate uniforms?

Uniforming is NOT a method of Venturing. I know Crews which have coat/tie/dress for uniform, and a T-shirt for ordinary stuff. I know Crews which use the Green shirt and other people's grey pants (no matter what Supply Corporation recommends). The only restriction I know of is Crews cannot adopt the tan/green Boy Scout uniform as their youth uniform, but someone who is less a Uniform Licensee than I will have to confirm that.

 

Have I answered your questions?

[Liz]

Yes. Very helpful. Thank you.

[emb021]

"- What is the difference between a "Venturing Crew" and a "Venturing Patrol?""

 

Ok, first lets get some terms correct.

 

"Venturing" is the name for the BSA's program for youth 14-18, formed into Crews. These youth, btw, are called "Venturers".

 

"Venture" is the name for the BSA's optional program for Boy Scout troops where they organize their older boys (13 and up) into a special patrol. The boys in these patrols are called "boy scouts".

 

Despite the name similiarity, these are SEPARATE PROGRAMS.

 

As noted, a Venturing Crew is a separate unit from a Cub Scout Pack, Boy Scout Troop, Varsity Scout Team, and Sea Scout Ship.

 

A Venture Patrol is just another patrol within a troop.

 

"- Is it necessary to start a different organization, which would involve convincing the CO to sponsor yet another group (or finding a different CO), or can they be an addendum to the existing Troop?"

 

Venturing Crews are ALWAYS separate units from troops. Running them as some kind of addendum to the troop is rarely successful. They are then little more then a Venture Patrol.

 

The Crew can have the same CO as the troop, BUT needs to have their own adult Crew Committee and have their own separate identity from the troop to be truly successful.

 

This means the crew needs to have its own adult leadership, meet at a separate time from the troop and have its own events separate from the troop (none of this cr*p of making the crew build its program around what the troop is doing and the like).

 

"- If they are part of the existing Troop (if that's even possible), would they still be able to include female members? (one or two of the boys in the patrol have close-in-age sisters who want to join)."

 

Again, Crews ARE separate from Troops.

 

Crews can be co-ed, but that is a decision of the chartered organization. I know of all-male crews and I guess there could be all-female crews.

 

"- How hard is it to continue working toward Eagle after joining a Venturing Crew? Is this too much? I read somewhere that boys who are First Class or higher when they become Venturers can continue working on Eagle requirements without having to stay active in a troop in addition to the Crew; but it wasn't an "official" source so I don't know how accurate that was. My son's not sure he's going to want to stay active in both a troop and a crew, primarily because of time commitments."

 

You have stated the official policy: boys in a crew who have earned atleast first class can go on an earn Star, Life, and Eagle in their crew WITHOUT being registered in a troop.

 

As noted, advancement is NOT a method of Venturing. While we like to see crews use the VENTURING advancement program (Bronze-Gold-Silver, along with the expert awards of Ranger, Quest, and TRUST), they do NOT have to build their program around earning them. Crews certainly shouldn't build their program around earning Eagle (uh, what about the girls in their crew who CAN'T earn it?).

 

If the YOUTH want to build their crew program around earning the Venturing awards, that is their choice. It should NOT be dictated by the adults.

 

"- What about OA? My son and all the members of his patrol are in the OA."

 

Boys who are in the OA can remain in the OA while members of Crews. You just can't have elections in the Crew.

 

To remain in the OA, you just need to maintain membership in the BSA. Being registered in a Crew will do this.

 

"- How does uniforming work for a Venturer who is also a Boy Scout and/or is working on ranks toward Eagle and/or is in the OA? Two separate uniforms?"

 

Venturing doesn't have uniforming as a method. Venturing is also more flexible in that we allow each crew to decided what THEIR uniform shall be. The green/gray Venturing uniform is an option (and is the official bsa venturing uniform), but is not required. As noted, the tan BSA uniform may NOT be worn by Venturers.

 

I have found that most Venturers who are involved in the OA and doing other BSA stuff want a uniform and will wear the green/gray Venturing uniforms (please note, despite what some say you should wear charcoal gray pants or shorts with the green shirt, BUT they need NOT be from National Supply. 'choice your uniform' doesn't mean you get to decided to wear different pants/shorts with the green shirt.) I see many crews who have members wearing the green shirt, and other times are wearing t-shirts, polos and the like.

 

 

 

[John-in-KC]

So if I write "Venturing Patrol," it's the internet equivalent of scratching fingers along a chalkboard , eh??

 

I know of at least one all-female crew in my Council.

[nolesrule]

"Ok, first lets get some terms correct.

 

"Venturing" is the name for the BSA's program for youth 14-18, formed into Crews. These youth, btw, are called "Venturers". "

 

Since we're all posting in the spirit of accuracy, it's 14-21. But I'm willing to 'venture' that the "18" was just the brain and the fingers not in sync.

[Buffalo Skipper]

Technically, for Venturing and Sea Scouting it is "14 and having completed the 8th grade or 15, through 20." Twenty one year olds are no longer considered youth and are adults. Just as Eagle must be completed before one's 18th birthday, Venturing recognition (Silver, Ranger, Quest, and Denali) and Sea Scout rank (Quartermaster) must be completed before the date one turns 21.

 

To clarify what was written above, there are no ranks in Venturing, and unlike Boy Scouts, "Rank Advancement" is not one of the methods (but "Recognition" is). Venturing has a program of Recognition which includes some stepped awards leading (via several paths) to the Silver Award, and there are other awards which can be earned as well. Sea Scouting is a part of the Venturing program, but it DOES have a series of ranks culminating in the Quartermaster. Sea Scouts may work on Venturing awards and recognition, but Venturers may not earn Sea Scouting ranks.(This message has been edited by Buffalo Skipper)

[emb021]

"So if I write "Venturing Patrol," it's the internet equivalent of scratching fingers along a chalkboard , eh?? "

 

 

Yup.

 

Along with writing "Venture Crew", "Venture Scout" & "Venturing Scout"

 

""Venturing" is the name for the BSA's program for youth 14-18, formed into Crews. These youth, btw, are called "Venturers". "

 

"Since we're all posting in the spirit of accuracy, it's 14-21. But I'm willing to 'venture' that the "18" was just the brain and the fingers not in sync."

 

 

Yup. Fair catch, tho its probably better to say 14-20, as they age out at 21 (you can argue whether saying 14-21 means until they turn 21, or thru the age of 21).

[Buffalo Skipper]

Check out the official site. In the first sentence it clearly states through age 20.

 

http://www.scouting.org/Media/FactSheets/02-388.aspx

 

There is plenty of other good information on this page, Liz which is worth taking the time to look over.

[emb021]

Oh, I should point out that Buffalo Skipper's posting about Venturing recognition is spot on. (tho I think you meant 'sea scouts' not 'sea scouters').

 

Sadly, too many scouters just don't understand the subtle details of it, even some who are involved in the program.

 

I had one scouter on-line who jumped all over me claimed I was wrong for basically stating what Skipper says here.

 

[click23]

Accutally, according to the youth application, some can stay a youth until their 22nd birthday.

 

"Venturers and Sea Scouts registered in a crew or ship prior to their 21st birthday may continue as members after their 21st birthday until the crew or ship recharters or until they reach their 22nd birthday, whichever comes first."

 

The first recharter after their 21st birthday will catch most, but if the crew or ship have a charter period longer than one year, you could go until your 22nd birthday.

[Buffalo Skipper]

Yes, of course I meant Sea Scouts. Thanks, I was able to edit that.

And it is important, as you suggested to appreciate the suble differences of the program. In reality Venturing is a program as different from Boy Scouts as Boy Scouts is from Cub Scouts. To a degree well beyond the expectations Boy Scouts, Venturing is intended to teach responsibility and accountability. I think the Venturing Code is one of the most powerful statements in all of Scouting:

As a Venturer, I believe that America's strength lies in our trust in God and in the courage, strength, and traditions of our people.

I will, therefore, be faithful in my religious duties and will maintain a personal sense of honor in my own life.

I will treasure my American heritage and will do all I can to preserve and enrich it.

I will recognize the dignity and worth of all humanity and will use fair play and goodwill in my daily life.

I will acquire the Venturing attitude that seeks truth in all things and adventure on the frontiers of our changing world.

Those are strong words indeed which I feel really embody what Ventruing is all about.

[emb021]

"Accutally, according to the youth application, some can stay a youth until their 22nd birthday."

 

They stay members of their crew, but they stop being youth.

 

Advancement stops at 21.

 

They can't hold youth positions. Area, Regional and National positions can't be held if you are over 21 during your term of office.

 

I've several times spoken with Bill Evans at National and said that needs to be clarified.

 

 

[click23]

emb021, That is just confusing, but with some of the stuff that has came out of Texas recently, I have no doubt what you said is correct.

[emb021]

"emb021, That is just confusing, but with some of the stuff that has came out of Texas recently, I have no doubt what you said is correct."

 

Yes it confusing. I had several on-line conversations with Bill Evans about it. I said several times it needs to be changed/clarified, which he agreed, but he wasn't able to get the PTB to do so.

 

Considering all the 'discussions' I seen on-line which came about because of strange/unclear statements and policies in BSA documents that never seem to get changed, you'd think the BSA would do a better job of it. But I guess they just don't see those as issues that need correcting.