Adult FEMALE ADVISOR Required at ALL Coed Activities?

[dluders]

1. Our year-old Venturing Crew is having a change of adult leadership for Rechartering 2009. Our previous Committee Chair was a female parent who also acted as a FEMALE ADVISOR. She believes that it is a REQUIREMENT to have COED ADULT LEADERSHIP present at ALL coed Venturing Crew activities (meetings, daytime outings, as well as overnight campouts). I believe that since there is no official BSA Female Advisor position per se, the need for a female adult leader is really only for OVERNIGHT campouts. There ALREADY IS Two-Deep Leadership present (albeit, male leadership) at crew events. I checked the Guide to Safe Scouting, and there was no statement REQUIRING coed adult leadership at ALL crew events.

 

2. She maintains that, if the Crew is coed, a Female Advisor must be present for all Crew activities if the young Ladies in the Crew are present. Male Crew Advisors are never to be solely in charge without the female counterpart; it is for the male leader's protection as well as the young ladies. She said this was matter was covered on our Venturing Leader training.

 

3. I'm wondering whether we need to find a female parent to serve as our Female Advisor for 2009. Which opinion is correct, and why? What is REQUIRED and what is simply a GOOD IDEA?

[Bob White]

Have you considered simply sharing the passages from the Guide to Safe scouting and the Venturing Leaders Handbook that say only that you must have co-ed leadership on co-ed overnight activities.

 

Some open communiocation would probably resolve this issue very quickly.

 

However...If the committee chair wants to extend that safety precaution to all of the unit's activities then your correct response is "Okay".

 

 

 

 

[Beavah]

However...If the committee chair wants to extend that safety precaution to all of the unit's activities then your correct response is "Okay".

 

Provided that position is voted on by the committee to establish it as a policy. The CC cannot establish policy on her own.

 

In terms of what's required, you have it right, eh? Only coed overnight activities require adult leaders of different genders.

 

In terms of what's prudent, I reckon that's just fine, eh? It's really hard to make a case for needin' mixed-gender leadership for a day trip. In their non-scouting life, girls routinely attend meetings and classes, go to sports practice, etc. with only one male adult present, eh? Very difficult to make a negligence argument when it's common practice even among professional educators.

 

Only thing I can imagine is if you were doin' a challengin' day-trip activity and a girl got injured, it might seem awkward for a male leader to do the physical exam as part of first aid? But honestly, da EMT's who arrive are likely to be guys. So's the ER doc.

 

I just don't see it being an issue. Best practice and da G2SS are in perfect alignment here, there's no need to add additional requirements.

 

B(This message has been edited by Beavah)

[dhendron]

"Provided that position is voted on by the committee to establish it as a policy. The CC cannot establish policy on her own."

 

Except...the committee does not make Crew policy. The Crew does, and it is written in the code and bylaws. If the CC wished to have the Crew include this extra requirement, she would have to take it to the Crew officers to mull over, and if they agreed, they would take it to the Crew for an amendment to current policy.

[John-in-KC]

Ahhhh... but the Chartered Partner has inherent right of veto over everything a BSA unit does.

 

The Chartered Partner is the licensee of record to BSA, not the officers of the Crew.

[Bob White]

Beavah writes, "However...If the committee chair wants to extend that safety precaution to all of the unit's activities then your correct response is "Okay".

 

Provided that position is voted on by the committee to establish it as a policy. The CC cannot establish policy on her own. "

 

That would be incorrect. The role of the committee members is to carry out assignments given them by the committee chair. I am unaware of anything stating that the committee must vote on a "policy" determined by the committee chair.

 

And as John has pointed out the CR also has the authority to implement any policy that does not conflict with BSA policies.

 

Actually dhendron, it is the policies determined by the crew that require approval by the committee and not the other way around.

 

[Beavah]

Yah, BobWhite, it's true that some CC's out there behave like they're IH's and believe that they can set policy on their own authority. It might work for your unit, and with da right sort of amiable fellow as CC, it can be successful, eh? Yah, and in some CO's with a religious hierarchy tightly tied to da unit, it might be the way a CO chooses to do things. That's their call, eh?

 

Personally, for most units, I wouldn't recommend it. I don't think it's healthy. I reckon that's why in the BSA's program materials it isn't recommended either. Yeh won't find anywhere in da BSA literature which states that the Committee Chair sets unit policy. Rather, in da BSA materials, the committee acts as a board of directors, and the committee and CO set policy. Policy, by its nature, needs more than one brain to think through things, eh? Too easy for one guy to "go off", or just not realize all da implications. That's why we live in a democracy, rather than a kingdom.

 

Of course, dhendron is also right, eh? In a crew, the crew sets policy for itself (at least for da youth side of the operations). I don't reckon that's supposed to apply to the youth setting the youth protection rules, eh? But then again, the youth might do a better job than a CC who thinks he's IH!

 

Beavah

 

[BadenP]

I don't understand why this is even a problem, in my crew we never have a shortage of male and female adults willing to participate in any activity. We have six adult associate advisors, three male and three female registered in our crew. As far as sleeping overnight the rule is very clear a male and female adult must be present, another caution however could be a group of cars heading to an activity and in one of them the adult is a male and the passengers are all female crew members which might set the guy up for accusations or worse.

[shortridge]

Simple: No one sits in the front passenger seat. Stick some extra overflow gear there. And make sure rest stops are done as a whole group.

[Bob White]

There is no BSA regulation being violated in the scenario offered by BadenP. Having female passengers with an adult male driving is neither prohibited or counter indicated by any BSA policy or procedure. Nor is having a female leader driving in a vehicle with male youth passengers a problem.

 

The rules are clear and simple.

1)No one on one contact between adult and youth members,

2)Two deep leadrship for outing and activities,

3)Co-ed overnighters require co-ed leadership.

 

That is all there is to it.Follow those three rules in everything the crew does you are fine.

[BadenP]

It may not be a BSA rule Bobby but I can tell you what happenned to a male associate advisor in another crew in my council, he was driving a group of female venturers home from an event and was accused by two of them of making lewd suggestions and touching them inappropriately.

 

He was told to step down from all crew activities by the SE while an investigation took place. The problem was that the crew was scheduled to go to the Sea Base that next weekend, this trip was two years in planning and fundraising which he had spearheaded and he had to stay at home. It turns out the girls who accused him were trying to get even with him since he caught them taking off from the activity that weekend and reported them, so the whole case was bogus, but the damage was done, his reputation was shot, parents believing the rumors did not want their girls around him. I even offered him a position in my crew but he told me he had enough. So he left Venturing and scouting and those two girls disappeared from the crew.

 

Bob obviously you have no girls on your ship or you would not have made such an uninformed and ignorant statement. Just because something is not in a BSA rulebook doesn't mean you can leave common sense behind and not take precautions to protect both the youth and adults on a crew trip.

[Bob White]

Actually we have 3 girls active in the ship BadenP. What you leave out of your story is the real possibility that the adult actually did what the girls said. The fact that the girls left the unit is in no way a testimony to the adult leader's innocence.

 

It seems to me that what happened in your scenario was quite possibly the YP protection at work not at failure.

 

It seems equally possible that your "friend" used poor judgement in his behavior not in his adherance to the YP rules.

 

First you say that I was correct in what I said that it is not a violation of any regulation, then you say it was ignorant.

 

I would choose to travel with two adults in car regardles of who the passengers are only because if I should be injured or become ill it would be a good idea to have another adult to assume the driviong responsibilities.

 

But as far as the topic of this thread, which I believe is still 'what is the BSA policy' the information I shared was accurate as you first acknowledged prior to calling what I said ignorant. So much for you giving your word to stop doing that eh.

[BadenP]

First of all Bobby this guy did not do or say anything in violation of YPT, the girls LIED not him and yet he paid the price for their childish prank not them so no this was YPT failing not working,(do you even read the posts Bob?)

 

Perhaps ignorant was the wrong word for your comments, how about Arrogant and Obnoxious instead, both seem to fit the tone of both your replies. Your attitude of the BSA is always right didn't hold water here. This was a case where all the rules in the BSA failed to result in a just end, he was found innocent of all accussations and yet the damage was done to his reputation and scouting lost another great volunteer.

[Bob White]

Were you in the vehicle? If so you did not mention that you were in the story. Were there others in the vehicle who said he did not do it? You did not mention that either.

 

I can understand that he is your friend and you do not believe he did it, but that is not proof that is just your personal feeling.

 

If he did not do it then it was not a prank it was slander and I am surprised he did not pursue it as such. Perhaps there is a reason he did not?

 

In either case he did not violate the BSA YP protection by driiong a vehhicle with 2 female youth members in the in and if his behavior was improper having a buddy in the vehicle propable protected a youth from harm.

 

I didn't say the BSA was always right. I accurately related what the actual BSA policy was regarding adult leadership for crew activities. If you find accurate information as arrogant or obnoxious then that is a personal problem you will need to learn to deal with.

 

You gave your word that you would no longer be hostile to me in your posts. I expected you to be trustworthy and keep your word.

 

[BadenP]

Bobby

 

All I have to say to you is that you are a real piece of work!!

 

As far as hostility and trustworthy is concerned it is a two way street, bub.