Venture Crew/Scout Troop Challenge

[Eagle92]

Ok I am coming to the pros from Dover on this matter. I got placed in this situation because 1) I have experience being in a coed unit from way back and 2) some folks still see me as a DE event though I gave that up 7 years ago.

 

Background. We have a relatively new troop with few active and dependable leaders. Usually it's the SM and same ASM on every trip. Well the ASM has a daughter who is Venturing age and one or two of the Scouts have sisters the same age, so the ASM starts a Venture Crew and two of the Scouts are dual enrolled as well.

 

The challenge is that since the crew was established about 2 months ago, every time the troop goes camping, the girls from the Crew are also there as well with the ASM and the female assoc. adv. who is the ASM's wife. SM is concerend about some things happening between the two genders, but doesn't know how to discuss the concerns with the ASM who is not only needed for the troop to go camping, but is also a good friend. Both the SM and UC asked me about this last nite at RT.

 

Now from my limited experience, once the rules have been set, there are usualy no problems. In my old ship we got to know the girls well enough to consider them part of the group and not have any interest in them. This also seemed the way things worked out in the British scout troops I worked with a long time ago.

 

One idea I had was keep the units far enough apart that they are separate, but close enough for mutual support. Kinda like Kudu's recommendation of keeping patrols 100 yards apart. But then concerns of YPT come up in the SM and UC's mind.

 

So your thoughts and recommendations on how to advise the SM, US and ADV.

[click23]

Is the scoutmaster inviting the Crew on these campouts?

[emb021]

Thing to keep in mind is that Venturing Crews (note, its NOT "Venture Crew") and Boy Scout Troops are separate units. I've found that Venturing Crews that are nothing more then an extension of a troop (ie usually nothing more then a glorified Venture Patrol) rarely succeed.

 

The Crew and Troop need to have separate identities and do their own things.

 

I also have to question WHY are these Venturers at the troop event? Was this event planned out as a joint Crew/Troop event? Or did someone amoung the Venturers get the idea that if its a troop event, the members of the crew are free to attend, do to some preceived ties between the two.

 

Certainly, yes, one should have concerns regard YPT and all that. And some may worry about the appropriate behavior of the girls with the boys who aren't in the crew. And if they are camping, they really need to be separate from the troop, little different, as you note, as patrols are separate from patrols. But there are also the co-ed camping issues the crew needs to be mindful of.

 

But it also sounds to me like the crew needs to develop its own program and identity, and be doing its own events, not tagging along with the troop.

 

[Eagle92]

I don't know, but I think not. He found out that the Crew was joining them on their Nov. campout in 1.5 weeks last nite. The challenge is that if the ASM/ADV. doesn't go, then they don't have enough leaders to go.

 

Another thing I advised was having the groups travel together and do some things together as needed, but for the most part have camping areas somwhat separate and some advance activities for the venturers. Then the question of YPT comes into play according to the UC. I said I don't think YPT comes into play becasue three leaders; SM, ASM/ADV, and AA (female) are on the trip.

 

 

 

 

[click23]

Having joint activities can be a great recruitment tool for the crew, and give the younger members of the troop something to look forward to. But, this should only happen a few times a year in my opinion. The programs are different, and if the only activities that the crew is doing is with the troop, it is little more than a coed troop.

[CNYScouter]

I used to be on the Venturing Crews need to be there own unit bandwagon until recently when I became involved with a Crew that started exactly the same way that Eagle92 is describing.

 

The crew was first started for the sisters of boys in the troops and for a few older Scouts that had made Eagle and where looking for something to keep active.

The boys in the troop really had no problem with these young ladies as they had around the Troop with their brothers and they saw them at school every day.

 

At first the Venturing Crew worked right along with troop.

They meet at the same time, did the same skills instruction and went on camping trips with the troop basically acting as another Patrol.

 

This worked out really well as the young ladies needed the basic skills the troop was teaching and it allowed the crew members to learn these skills without holding back the older scouts as they went ahead and planned more high adventure activities.

 

After about 15 months the crew is now meeting and doing activities on their own.

This year they are still planning on doing a few joint activities but the Crew is slowly becoming a unit on its own.

 

The reason I see this crew working is that the leaders of the Troop and Crew worked together to make this happen.

 

There is no Youre stealing our older Scouts as the Troop leaders would rather see the kids stay in scouting than fight over what unit they are in.

I have yet to see a Troop leader get mad because a Scout is attending more Crew activities than Troop activities..

 

There is at least one member of the crew that is 18 (an Eagle) that is registered as an ASM in the Troop.

He uses the Crew to do better high adventure trips as a Venturer and works with the Troop as an adult.

 

I am now convinced that this can be a great way to start out a crew.

 

Kids who come into the Venturing program without a scouting background usually dont have the skills to jump right into the really high adventure stuff and this gave them a way to learn the skills without having to tie the Crew Advisors up running to different program

 

The key to make this happen is the Troop and Crew has to sit down and come up with a common vision and be willing to work together to make it happen.

 

Currently this crew is approaching 30 youth members.

 

[Eagle92]

I do know that the SM is hoping to get a few new leaders when the 22 Webelos II cubs crossover in February. that may help out some with the troop's leadership.

 

As for the crew, I know for a fact that the ADV is recruiting OA members who are bored with their troops and /or want soem additional challenges that venturing offers.

 

 

yeah yeah I know it's Venturing, but when all the professional staff you knew from your FD all the way to the national Venturing Director have refered to the crews as "Venture Crews" it does kind of stick with you.

 

Dang I'm old

[emb021]

"I know it's Venturing, but when all the professional staff you knew from your FD all the way to the national Venturing Director have refered to the crews as "Venture Crews" it does kind of stick with you."

 

I've never heard Charles Holmes refer to Venturing Crews as "Venture Crews". He, in fact, wrote a note on the correct terminology.

 

The only pros I hear saying that term are local people who just don't know the program.

 

 

 

[Eagle92]

It was Holmes' predescessor, sorry cannot remember the name, that referred to "Venture Crews." That was at PDL-1 in 98, the 1998 NLTC, and later at a council meeting that he attended. Also I believe some of the literature they gave the us at NLTC on Venturing refer to the units as "Venture Crews." I told you I was an old fogey

 

But you are right we need to codify "Venturing Crews" because it is so close to Venture Patrols. Heck the Venture Crew/Venture Patrol naming was commented on at PDL-1 when I first heard about Venturing, and also at the 98 NLTC when venturing was formally brought out.

 

On another note, don't you find it interesting that the BSA used the Scout Assocoation's name for the then older youth program, Venturing, and the Scouting Assoc. now calls their older youth program Exploring?

 

Now to get back on topic, what are some ideas to handle the situation in the original post.

[emb021]

"On another note, don't you find it interesting that the BSA used the Scout Assocoation's name for the then older youth program, Venturing, and the Scouting Assoc. now calls their older youth program Exploring?"

 

Actually, many scout associations (not just the UK one) use the term "Venture", "Venture Scout" or "Venturing" for their older youth program. Which is certainly where we got "Venture" and "Venturing.

 

And yes, I did find it funny that the UK Scout Association changed their Venture Scout program to Exploring a few years back.

 

"Now to get back on topic, what are some ideas to handle the situation in the original post."

 

Like I said, its important that the crew have a separate identity, program, and activity from the troop.

 

Its one thing to have a crew be split off from a troop. CNYScouters scenario is fine. But the problems occur when you have things like the troop dominating the crew (crew not allowed to have own program, must do everything in conjunction with/for the benefit of the troop) or the crew is nothing more then a glorified venture patrol.

 

The crew (and its members) can't assume they can just come to troop events. Get the crew to start having their own meetings/events apart from the troop. Its one thing to have occasion (and planned out as such) joint events. But the crew can't assume they are invited to all troop events or the like.