When is a crew member an adult according to BSA?

[ElyriaLeader]

We recently attended an out of council camp and were suprised when our 18+ y.o. crew members were told they had to stay with the adults, if I remember correctly aren't crew members considered youth until the age of 21? so which takes precedence? BSA policy says anyone over 18 is an adult for Boy Scouts, or all the venture manuals that say 21 is an adult for venture crews, so which is it? and why the difference at the camp?

[OldGreyEagle]

I took this off slide 45 of Venturing Leader Specific Training Rev 2

 

"A Venturer is a young man or women who has completed the eight grade and is at least 14 years of age but not yet 21. He or she pays an annual registration fee, subscribes to the Venturing Oath and Code, attends regular meetings, and is a registered member of a chartered Venturing crew"

 

So, a Venturer is a youth until 21, just like the OA, they are youth until 21.

 

Why was there such a rule? Because they don't understand and thats all I can say about it

[emb021]

In Boy Scouts & Varsity Scouts, you are a youth until 18, after 18 you are an adult.

 

In the OA and Venturing, you are a youth until 21, after 21 you are an adult.

 

Overall, the 18-21 age group is kind of a gray area. Youth in some programs, adult in another. Only certain adult positions are open to this age group.

 

At NOAC (National OA Conferences), we have to do housing in these 4 groups:

 

boys under 18

boys 18-21

adult males 21+

adult females

 

The council camp you were at was probably operating under Boy Scout rules, and treated anyone over 18 as adults. Probably a good idea when attending out of council camps to ensure they are following Venturing rules and not Boy Scout rules.

 

At a minimum, they should have put people in 3 groups (under 18, 18-21, 21+).

 

 

[Gold Winger]

I think that Philmont does that too.

[John-in-KC]

What emb021 describes is very similar to what our local VOA does for allnighter activities.

 

- Males under 21

- Females under 21

- Males over 21

- Females over 21

[Bob White]

Actually, according to the Venturing Leader Manual, it is until the end of the unit chartering year during which the scout turns 21.

 

 

[shortridge]

So a Venturer could potentially be 21 for 11 months until he or she is actually considered an adult?

 

Goofy.

[ElyriaLeader]

yet I still have Scoutmasters who will argue the point ad infinum until they think they have beaten me into submission that "they're adults if they're over 18", I have shown them the references in the venture manuals, but alas on ears with too much gray hair covering them. JK I'm a silverback too, but I'm starting to run out of patience with these guys who are trying to "straighten out the venture guy on the rules". Has anyone else been running into this? or am I the lone ranger here?(This message has been edited by ElyriaLeader)

[Bob White]

Shortridge,

Yes it is possible although it probably rarely happens. Unless he or she needed that last month to complete a rank or award they would likey choose to end their youth career at the end of the current charter rather than go one month into the new one, or remain a youth for another 11-months. (such is the nature of growing-up)

[OldGreyEagle]

Alas, caught by Competing BSA resources, who knew they would conflict?

[Bob White]

Not conflicting, one is just more detailed than another. If I were looking for an answer about Boy Scouting I would look in the Boy Scout Handbook and the Scoutmaster Handbook. Sometimes one gives more detail on the topic than the another.

 

For Venturing, look in the Venturing Handbook and the Venturing Leader Manual. In this case one gives more detail than the other on this topic.

 

Remember what Hooty Owl says!

 

Elyria

You are not alone in this frustration. You will learn that being a trained leader merely means they attended training, It does not allways mean that they paid attention during training. Or before or after training for that matter.

 

Take comfort in the fact that you have a good understanding of the membership rule. You did your best in showingthem the correct reference to prove what the rule is. After thant you can onley choses whether it is an issue that is worth risking being made to leave the event, or if you should juct rearange the sleeping arrangements to give the 18 to 20 year olds their own space.

 

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[emb021]

"Unless he or she needed that last month to complete a rank or award they would likey choose to end their youth career at the end of the current charter rather than go one month into the new one, or remain a youth for another 11-months. (such is the nature of growing-up)"

 

Please note, advancement ends at 21. Being on the charter doesn't over rule this. I verified this with the people at National.

 

The members of the National Venturing Cabinet can not turn 21 during their term of office. Candidate who may turn 21 during their term can not even be considered.

 

[Bob White]

No one has posted otherwise.

[BrotherhoodWWW]

Perhaps it is because of the Youth protection training that states that 18 yo is the line between youth and adult. Youth protection rules crosses all programs equally. The application of this in the field is what makes for differing arrangements. The rule that folks are trying to enforce is that youth below the age of 18 must have seperate accomodations than those over 18. At least that is my understanding of all this.

[Bob White]

Nowhere in the Guide to Safe Scouting does it say "that youth below the age of 18 must have separate accomodations than those over 18.".

 

 

What the G2SS says is that "When staying in tents, no youth will stay in the tent of an adult other than his or her parent or guardian."

 

The definition of Youth is left to the membership requirements of each program.

(This message has been edited by Bob White)